ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade Non-US Electrical Systems & Trades 220/440V 2ph/3w service in Austria

Yes, it is! Found at BauMax, one of our HomeDepot equivalents, flyer dating from September 16th 2002, 50m coil. same thing 50m coil 3x 2.5sq. mm is 19 Euro (38 cents/m). Single wires 1.5mm2 solid, PVC sheathed are 3.70 per 100m coil. 4 3-way switches or 10 Schuko receptacles without frames 9 Euro.
Breakers (F&G brand, well-known in Austria) 13A single pole 4.63, double pole (strongly recommended, clerk once told me "works like an additional GFI!") for fusing the neutral as well, 8.79. 16A single pole 5.19, DP 8.79.
Anything else you want to know?
PS: there are also switches that are much more expensive: retrofit knobturn switches with glass wall plate are 25 Euro each. I nearly fainted when I heard the price, yet I think the palazzo series w/ brass/marble wall plate are even more expensive.
I prefer solid wires for one reason: It's much easier to get them into our strip connectors, and it's almost impossible to get stranded into backwires which is the only connector type available here (When i found recpetacles with screw terminals I bought the whole stock, because i like them better than the backwires)
Plus I mostly use flex conduit (much nicer to handle an empty flex conduit than a hard cable)

>Yes, it is! Found at BauMax, one of our
>HomeDepot equivalents, flyer dating from
>September 16th 2002, 50m coil. same thing
>50m coil 3x 2.5sq. mm is 19 Euro (38
>cents/m).

Well. Perhaps one should start importing cable from Austria. I could make a nice little profit. (3x2.5 sqmm is 1.5 Euro/m here)

>Single wires 1.5mm2 solid, PVC sheathed are >3.70 per 100m coil.

Ummm... The shop I worked in sold it for ten times that a few years ago..

>4 3-way switches or 10 Schuko receptacles >without frames 9 Euro.

That will buy you one Schuko receptable here. (Double with frame) Or one 3-way switch. (I think we sold the Schukos at 15 Euros a piece.)

Scandinavia is a monopoly market. If you ever see a company called Lexel (a Schneider subsidiary), watch out. There are going to take over the market, buying all competitors. They have turned Sweden, Norway and Denmark into complete monopoly in the past years and are now going for Poland and Germany.

>Breakers (F&G brand, well-known in Austria) >13A single pole 4.63, double pole (strongly >recommended, clerk once told me "works like >an additional GFI!") for fusing the neutral >as well, 8.79.
>16A single pole 5.19, DP 8.79.

A no name single pole 16A breaker 4 Euro, double pole 6 Euro, three pole at 9 Euro...
(Lexel isn't active in this market)

>Anything else you want to know?

Yes! Do Austrian switches and sockets fit Swedish boxes? Ours are round, 70 mm in dia. with 60 mm between the screws.

>I prefer solid wires for one reason: It's
>much easier to get them into our strip
>connectors, and it's almost impossible to
>get stranded into backwires which is the
>only connector type available here (When i
>found recpetacles with screw terminals I
>bought the whole stock, because i like them
>better than the backwires)

Echo that.

>Plus I mostly use flex conduit (much nicer >to handle an empty flex conduit than a hard >cable)

Do you use solid core wires in flex conduit?

>Do Austrian switches and sockets fit Swedish boxes?

They do! Ours are the same dimensions. Sometimes used as junction boxes, along with 12 cm square. Some switch boxes are also octagon, gangable. All designed to fit masonry walls. Boxes for use with cavity walls (plaster and lathe, sheetrock) slightly smaller in diameter, red or orange in color, with clamps to be secured in any wall between some mm and several cm.
The switches and receptacles are modern Kopp brand backwires (Germany) available in ivory, white and brown.
Only thing I definitely wouldn't recommend are the "Safemat" GFIs they sell. We bought one and the electrician already warned us when he hooked it up. At the first test it tripped and couldn't be reset, even when completely disconnected. We got our cash back and bought a solid F&G (Felten and Guilleaume).
Yes, I use solid core in conduit because it's the only available here. Stranded is only available as SVT and zip cord, i'm not even sure it is listed for fixed work. (Really have to get a copy of our code book "Code for low-voltage installations")
In Italy this is pretty different. They even use stranded wire with wirenuts. I'm not sure if I like that thought.

Bye everyone, I'm going on a 1 week travel to Rome. Will be back on Sunday.
Greetinx from Austria

While we're comparing cable prices, here are some current figures from my BDC catalog (converted to Euro as I don't expect you're familiar with the British pound!):

100m 1.5mm twin & earth, e19.22
100m 2.5mm twin & earth, e25.42
100m 1.5mm single, e7.62
100m 2.5mm single, e12.07

All plus VAT at 17.5%. These are trade prices; they're slightly higher in the big DIY places and much more expensive for those who buy at the local hardware store!

By the way, in "twin & earth" all sizes up to 2.5 are solid conductors, 4mm upward are stranded. Single cable is the same, except that 2.5mm is available as solid or stranded.

Hope you enjoy your vacation Tex!

P.S. A note for our American friends: The new "Euro" is almost the same as a good-old American greenback. Exchange rate at the moment is 1 Euro = $0.98 U.S.




[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 09-24-2002).]

Too bad the UK colour coding is wrong.

I've heard you cheat on the Earth conductor in the UK, i.e. use 1.5 mm earth with 2.5 mm live and neutral. Is this true?

Yes, it's true. In our "twin & earth" cable the earth/ground wire is one size smaller than the other conductors, e.g. 4 sq. mm cable has a 2.5 earth.

The exception is the smallest 1 sq. mm cable which also has a 1mm earth. I assume that Sweden follows the rest of Europe in specifying 1.5 as the smallest allowable cable ???

Re the color codes, the British system at the moment is a mess. Blue in a flexible cord is neutral, but blue in a fixed cable is a phase. Black in a flex is a phase, but black in fixed wiring is neutral. Crazy, isn't it?

I'm curious now. When did Sweden adopt the brown, blue. green/yellow system> What did you use before?

Yes, 1.5 sqmm is the smallest and most common size. (Socket outlets are on 10A circuits)

I think the colour code changed ca 1970. Previously the earth was red, but this was made illegal in 1972. I don't know if the rest of the old colour code was outlawed or simply not used anymore. Anyway, it was (when wired to code):

Live: black, blue, yellow, green or grey. (Other colours may have been used too.)
Neutral: white
Earth: red

I've seen red used as both live and earth in the same junction box. But then, I've seen green/yellow used in the same way.

Please define: Neutral


[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 11-18-2002).]

A rhetorical question?

The terms Earth and Neutral is a way of avoiding the use of the confusing terms Grounding and Grounded.

I'm sure there is an official definition of Neutral. In fact, I thought the answer was obvious until I tried to write it down. After three failed attempts, I came up with this:


Neutral is a conductor used for carrying current under normal operation, which has a defined and limited potential to the surroundings and the Protective Earth.

If there is no Protective Earth, Neutral is the conductor which is intentionally connected to the surroundings. In most cases this will be the surface of the planet Earth, but it can also be e.g. the superstructure of a spaceship.

If there is no defined potential to the surroundings (e.g. a room with plastic walls) Neutral is the conductor with a defined but limited potential to Protective Earth.

If there is neither Protective Earth nor a defined potential to the surroundings, the term neutral is not applicable. In the case of a center-tapped system or a polyphase wye system the common conductor is then only a return path, not to be referred to as Neutral.