ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
AreMetal Ladders Ever OK For Electrical Work?
by jwes2699. 01/21/18 05:58 PM
VDE 0100 to introduce AFCIs
by sparky. 01/20/18 05:09 PM
MRI LED lights dimmer control replacement - wow!
by Potseal. 01/19/18 08:52 PM
Video: Inventor of the GFCI self-testing shocks
by Bill Addiss. 01/17/18 11:11 PM
FPE in Germany
by HotLine1. 01/17/18 07:07 PM
New in the Gallery:
Housebilding DIY wiring
SE cable question
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (jwes2699), 9 guests, and 12 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Does 352.12 trump 314.23(E)&(F)? #99771
09/04/06 10:32 PM
09/04/06 10:32 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline
OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,166
Estero,Fl,usa
314.23(E)&(F) says you can support enclosures from raceways and 352.12(B) referencing 352.10(H) says you can't support anything but conduit bodies from RNC. Can you support a swimming pool wet niche "J" box from RNC? How about a transformer?

I know we routinely OK the J box. Is it really a violation?


Greg Fretwell
2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Does 352.12 trump 314.23(E)&(F)? #99772
09/05/06 05:58 AM
09/05/06 05:58 AM
R
resqcapt19  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
The specific rules always "trump" the general rules.
Don

[This message has been edited by resqcapt19 (edited 09-05-2006).]


Don(resqcapt19)
Re: Does 352.12 trump 314.23(E)&(F)? #99773
09/05/06 11:06 AM
09/05/06 11:06 AM
E
earlydean  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 751
Griswold, CT, USA
No, you cannot support neither a deck box or a transformer with PVC conduit. 90.3 tells us that information in Chapters 1-4 apply generally, and Chapters 5-7 supplement or modify the general rules.
314.23(E)&(F) tells us we can support a splicing device with RMC or IMC conduit (the only 2 wiring methods that can be threaded wrenchtight).
352.10(H) allows conduit bodies containing splicing devices (wire-nuts).
Both transformers and deck boxes need to be listed (680.24) Nowhere in 680.24 does it allow the PVC conduit to support the deck box or transformer.

It really is a violation!


[This message has been edited by earlydean (edited 09-05-2006).]


Earl
Re: Does 352.12 trump 314.23(E)&(F)? #99774
09/05/06 01:37 PM
09/05/06 01:37 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline
OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,166
Estero,Fl,usa
The PVC J boxes really do not have a place to provide additional support.
Usually they do just get stuck up on the stubs that come out of the ground. If the pool is built on a stem wall and the equipment is on the ground these can be on some pretty tall pipes. I have never liked it but it is SOP. The other day I had a fellow IAEI inspector say the same rule would allow a transformer if it was made of a suitable material with threaded hubs. I drew the line there. I see you agree with my original contention, that the J boxes were also illegal, although I don't know how else you would do it.
Mine are really supported by the RNC but I have a clamp within an inch of the J box and they are against the wall.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Does 352.12 trump 314.23(E)&(F)? #99775
09/05/06 02:39 PM
09/05/06 02:39 PM
G
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
There's some Listed equipment out there made by I think a company called "Thermcraft" and sold through T & B. The deck boxes are supported by an optional solid post or an optional bracket suport. They also are Listed for multiple lights with terminations for more than one fixture. I saw them when I was at the Jubilee in FL. Greg you might remember the booth where the guy was pushing their products.
Found a site that I was talking about: http://www.californiapoolsupply.net..._Fixture_Swimming_Pool_Ju_p/jbp57510.htm

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 09-05-2006).]


George Little
Re: Does 352.12 trump 314.23(E)&(F)? #99776
09/05/06 09:54 PM
09/05/06 09:54 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline
OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,166
Estero,Fl,usa
Interesting George. The Thermocraft is the box we see but I never see the support hardware. Usually it is just a 1x3 PT scrap they find in the dumpster from the window framers and strapped to the raceways.

(Yeah I suppose they might bring a 1x3 but I doubt it)


Greg Fretwell

Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
Admin
Admin
NY, USA
Posts: 3,481
Joined: October 2000
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 20
sparky 16
Potseal 15
Popular Topics(Views)
243,586 Are you busy
180,381 Re: Forum
170,859 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.018s Queries: 14 (0.003s) Memory: 0.9765 MB (Peak: 1.1225 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-01-22 00:34:09 UTC