ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Potseal 11
Recent Posts
600 KW 120/208 3 Phase Y protection
by Yooperup. 07/24/17 12:20 PM
1913 American Electrician's Handbook
by gfretwell. 07/20/17 01:08 PM
Green House wiring
by ghost307. 07/20/17 09:10 AM
Permit Snafus...AHJs and Contractors Jump in
by HotLine1. 07/18/17 08:06 PM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
239,282 Are you busy
174,742 Re: Forum
167,119 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
2 registered members (gfretwell, Yooperup), 77 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#98946 - 06/27/06 06:41 PM Article 680.22  
JoeRossi  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26
Washington, NJ
An existing house, no receptacles in the back of the house, an above ground pool is being installed. The Contractor runs a 20amp circuit to a timer, then to a GFCI recpticale with a bubble cover, then to the motor receptacle.
The Inspector trips the recepticale agianst the house and the motor stops. A red-tag is placed on the window stating that you need one branch circuit for the receptacle at the pool and one branch circuit for the receptacle for the 10-20' rule.
What do you think?


Joe Rossi

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#98947 - 06/27/06 08:00 PM Re: Article 680.22  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,853
Brick, NJ USA
Joe;
Welcome to another Jersey Guy

OK, Pool requires a dedicated circuit.
General purpose outlet 10-20'
AG's require twistlock.
Most installs are faceless GFI, or GFI CB; bubble mandatory.
Please note that the key wording is "General Purpose" receptacle within 10-20' zone; it does not have to be dedicated.

This should not fall under the infamous 'Rehab'

John

PS: Which Washington???

[This message has been edited by HotLine1 (edited 06-27-2006).]


John

#98948 - 06/27/06 09:28 PM Re: Article 680.22  
gfretwell  Online Content


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,099
Estero,Fl,usa
A pool pump or light needs a special circuit.It ends up being wire in pipe with a green wire ground but it never says dedicated. My general use receptacle is on the wet niche light circuit. I pulled 2 green wires so the light one was unspliced.


Greg Fretwell

#98949 - 06/27/06 10:42 PM Re: Article 680.22  
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
Let's start with - is this a storable pool? Is the pump Listed for use with a storable pool? Sounds like it is a storable pool since there is no mention of bonding. If it's a pump Listed for a storable pool the cord length will put it beyond the 10' and you will be using a straight blade cap and receptacle. 680.7

Unless the manufacturer's spec out a dedicated/separate circuit you could use 210.23 and put the general purpose receptacle on the same circuit as the pump. Do the math [Linked Image]


George Little

#98950 - 06/28/06 12:09 AM Re: Article 680.22  
gfretwell  Online Content


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,099
Estero,Fl,usa
George, the "timer" and fact that there is an inspector there in the first place seems to indicate this is a permanent installation.
Storables are the ones you blow up and the equipment is typically just sitting there on the ground, connected with hoses or hanging on the pool wall.
These things have 25' cords by listing.
The code deals with them as simple portable equipment like an electric drill or weed whacker. Any GFCI outlet will do. The safety is built in the "storable pool pump/light" listing. (double insulated and such)
I recently got into this storable stuff a bit and it is a different breed of cat from "permanent" pool stuff. The call is as easy as simply reading the pump label and the labels on the pool. The equipment is mutually exclusive. You can't use a permanent pump on a storable and vice versa.
I suppose you could install a "storable pool" permanently with permanent equipment, by meeting the 680 Part II rules, but it can't go the other way.


Greg Fretwell

#98951 - 06/28/06 08:08 AM Re: Article 680.22  
JoeRossi  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26
Washington, NJ
Hotline1, I am from Washington the is on the intersection of Rte 31 & Rte 57.
The question is how many branch circuits do I need?
Remember, there is no existing receptacle, so one needs to be installed. This is the first time I triped a required 10-20' receptalce and the motor stopped. I interpt the code Article 680.22 as needing two branch circuits.


Joe Rossi

#98952 - 06/28/06 01:04 PM Re: Article 680.22  
gfretwell  Online Content


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,099
Estero,Fl,usa
Joe, I don't see this as a violation of 680.22 but it probably does violate 210.23(A)(2).
That has nothing to do with the pool, only the size of the motor, if >10a (3/4hp would be closer to 11)
680.22 is silent about how many outlets can be on the pump circuit.


Greg Fretwell

#98953 - 06/28/06 10:19 PM Re: Article 680.22  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,853
Brick, NJ USA
Joe:

"Read" General Purpose Receptacle, 10-20'
It can be from any source. Based on what I said above and this....above grd pool, 120 volt, one branch circuit.

John


John

#98954 - 06/29/06 06:35 PM Re: Article 680.22  
JoeRossi  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26
Washington, NJ
John,

Thanks for the replay. The motor at the pool is 1.5hp. If we go to Table 430.248 we find that this motor is calculated at 20 amps. That is why I enforce that rule that no other circuts be on it. One of these days I am going to bring my amp probe and start a chart on motore draw.

Have a great holiday. PS The circuit was changed.


Joe Rossi

#98955 - 06/29/06 08:19 PM Re: Article 680.22  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,853
Brick, NJ USA
Joe:
Hmmmmm.
Not for nothing, but....20 amp FLC on 20 amp (#12) circuit. I hope its a 20 amp rated GFCI Device

Also, FYI, what's the HP rating of the GFI device??

John

[This message has been edited by HotLine1 (edited 06-29-2006).]


John

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Member Spotlight
Grover
Grover
Sebago, ME, USA
Posts: 109
Joined: January 2005
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.025s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.8196 MB (Peak: 0.9955 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-07-24 16:31:20 UTC