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#9881 - 05/18/02 03:52 AM 240v 50a convience outlets  
joeh20  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 95
Tullahoma, TN, 37388
My question, A customer with a garage has one welder and wanted 4 50a outlets for this one welder, he wanted one in each corner for convience only, so as to not have long leads all over the floor. Are there any code provision for daisy chaining these as 110v outlets just one 50a breaker in panel and then from first outlet to the next and so on.
I normally wouldn't consider this but thought someone might know a code reference off hand. thanks joe


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#9882 - 05/18/02 08:38 AM Re: 240v 50a convience outlets  
Joe Tedesco  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
No. See 210.3, Exception and 210.23(c)


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

#9883 - 05/18/02 09:23 AM Re: 240v 50a convience outlets  
Frank Cinker  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 311
Pennsylvania
Joe,

That seems to be a common request. It makes sense to the user. However, NEC Article 630 (Electric Welders) would not permit such an installation.

Your local electrical inspector may choose to waive the code article and permit you to install as "convenience" outlets as you describe. I would have no problem with that.

Your local inspector may not permit such an installation and justify it with the following reasoning: The owner of the garage may sell his business one day. The new owner may operate several welders at one time not knowing they are fed from one 50 amp circuit breaker.

Frank


#9884 - 05/18/02 11:43 AM Re: 240v 50a convience outlets  
joeh20  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 95
Tullahoma, TN, 37388
Thanks guys, I was hoping to find a valid ref. and got it. Quick work I might add. I had no intention of installing in a chain, buta guy I work with asked for a code, he'll get it monday.


Lighting the way

#9885 - 05/18/02 12:18 PM Re: 240v 50a convience outlets  
resqcapt19  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
Frank,
What in 630 would prevent the requested installation?
Don


Don(resqcapt19)

#9886 - 05/18/02 03:11 PM Re: 240v 50a convience outlets  
Scott35  Offline

Broom Pusher and
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,707
Anaheim, CA. USA
Seems to me that all 4 outlets may be fed from the same 50 amp branch circuit / breaker [all 4 outlets on the same branch circuit].

Reason[s] being that at this time, there is only one load device intended to be used at one time, and the outlets are for Convenience only - rather than intended for multiple loads to be connected, or run together.

Even if two loads were connected at the same time, this should not be a non-compliance issue to the NEC, because if the circuit is overloaded the OCPD should trip.
This would fall more under the "Bad Designing Conscept" for which at this time there is no Federally Backed Code [Linked Image]

Last I saw in Article 90, the NEC couldn't care less if things run inefficiently, per designed criteria, or without some level of inconvienience
[per non-life threatening or non- hazardous results things [Linked Image]].
It [NEC] just doesn't want any Hazardous Situations installed by the installing Gods <hee, hee, hee>

Am I correct, or should I put on the Straight Jacket???


Scott S.E.T.


Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

#9887 - 05/18/02 07:04 PM Re: 240v 50a convience outlets  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,306
I would have to agree with Scott. I am not finding specific reference to the scenario. This would parrallel a bathroom or kitchens dedicated circuitry....
[Linked Image]


#9888 - 05/18/02 08:37 PM Re: 240v 50a convience outlets  
George  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 375
Not being an electrical person, I only have the ICC 1&2 Family dwelling code.

4202.5:

Multioutlet branch circutis shall be limited to a maximum branch-circuit rating of 20 amperes.

This appears to be a big (50amp v 20amp) waiver.

I guess the proper trade off might be a long power cable v. long welding leads.

I would put a 20' or 30' power cable on.


#9889 - 05/19/02 05:36 AM Re: 240v 50a convience outlets  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,306
ok George,
but we can still slip out of 4202.5 because this is not a dwelling....


#9890 - 05/19/02 10:04 AM Re: 240v 50a convience outlets  
Frank Cinker  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 311
Pennsylvania
Don,

I referenced NEC 630.11(B) (Group of Welders) Mainly because I couldn't find anything else even close. Upon reviewing it further and more careful I noticed it states group of welders not group of welder outlets. Based on that I would presume Article 630 would not prohibit such an installation. There doesn't seem to be a clear cut answer I can find in the Code Book.
As Scott mentioned, The OCPD would open in any event to provide safety. Beyond that it's a design issue.

Frank


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