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#96261 - 11/14/05 05:13 PM OH conductor spans  
Steve T  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 306
Oak Park, IL, USA
Does 225.26 refer only to open individual conductors that are supported by a porcelain knob or similar, OR for any conductor, whether in a cable or not, even if supported by a messenger wire with strain insulators?

Does anyone have any manuf spec on fittings, equipment, details of how to properly span and support OH conductors. I am dealing with lots of holiday lights on both public and private properties. There are many installations where insulated conductors are wrapped around tree branches strung from tree to tree, pole to tree, pole to pole, etc. and then christmas lights are wrapped around the pole or tree. I am trying to get a handle on these types of installations and before the questions come, I am trying to get prepared by anticipating them. Any help is appreciated. Thanks guys.


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#96262 - 11/14/05 09:34 PM Re: OH conductor spans  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,826
Brick, NJ USA
Steve:
What I think you're getting at is "holiday lighting". Around here, it falls in NEC 527; Temporary ('02 NEC).

Basically, GFI for all circuitry, a 'safe' wiring method, as determined by the appropriate NEC article.

Clearances should be the same for open conductors, cable, etc.

"Support" and attachment basically is a 'judgement call'. As to the 'tree' thing, basically, it's only a 'temp' install, not permanent, so it's usually OK.

How about opinions guys......Don, Bob, Ryan??

John


John

#96263 - 11/14/05 10:25 PM Re: OH conductor spans  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,080
Estero,Fl,usa
I always felt the NEC just went on vacation in December. I could never rationalize the junk people string in the bushes around the house and staple to the eaves with the wiring we demand the rest of the year.
I doubt most of this gets GFCI protection (it gets fished out a window) and they certainly don't have any load calculations.


Greg Fretwell

#96264 - 11/15/05 05:51 AM Re: OH conductor spans  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Quote
How about opinions guys......Don, Bob, Ryan??


I was chicken. [Linked Image]

Greg's post seems to have much truth in it.

I see no NEC permission to use vegetation as support for the branch circuits, feeders, or festoon type lighting.

IMO the feeds have to come up the tree from the ground to each individual tree.

By the way all, be careful out there if you are involved in large holiday displays.

Last year in this area an electrician was killed installing holiday lights.

He was given a bucket truck to use with little training, he ended up tipping it over. Not the way his family wanted to spend the holidays. [Linked Image]

Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#96265 - 11/15/05 07:06 AM Re: OH conductor spans  
Roger  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,716
N.C.
Quote
I always felt the NEC just went on vacation in December. I could never rationalize the junk people string in the bushes around the house and staple to the eaves with the wiring we demand the rest of the year.


It seems to me that more and more are never taken down, they just get plugged in each year with out any clue to the condition they are in.

Roger


#96266 - 11/15/05 02:17 PM Re: OH conductor spans  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,080
Estero,Fl,usa
Are resturants and bars the worst offenders in your area too?

It seems they get the CO before the decorators show up and they will use whatever they find on sale at *-Mart to light up the place. I see the cheapest looking holiday light strings stapled to the rail of boat docks over salt water where the customer might be standing in an inch of water when he ties his boat up to that rail.
The more I see the more I think this electricity stuff can't be that dangerous or we would be tripping over bodies.
... but I know better.
I guess god looks out for drunks and fools.
One of the worst offenders is the city/county when they have an outside event. I know we are supposed to be inspecting carnivals and fairs but when the government does it they seem to be immune.


Greg Fretwell

#96267 - 11/15/05 08:22 PM Re: OH conductor spans  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,826
Brick, NJ USA
Quote
"I was chicken.

Greg's post seems to have much truth in it.

I see no NEC permission to use vegetation as support for the branch circuits, feeders, or festoon type lighting."

Bob:
I was not trying to imply that what I mentioned above was the least bit "NEC"

Yes, a branch circuit with a GFI, and a bubble cover at the base of the tree/bush/whatever are MANDATORY; that is NOT considered "temporary". I stop there. Whatever gets plugged in.......

Also, I'm not fond of extension cords from tree to tree, but....legally I have no authority to do much, unless there is an open construction permit for the site.

I see some really brutal stuff at the catering hall lots (wrapped trees), but again, they have the circuit/outlet/etc at the base of each tree.

I'm trying to maintain political correctness but....it's still "Christmas Lights" to some of us.

John


John

#96268 - 11/15/05 09:06 PM Re: OH conductor spans  
Roger  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,716
N.C.
Greg, I see it from mobile homes to banks and everything in between.

My wife and I kid that when the icicle type lights (that are popular) are strung, they become permanent to the structure and can not be removed. [Linked Image]

Roger


#96269 - 11/16/05 09:06 PM Re: OH conductor spans  
PCBelarge  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 681
Dobbs Ferry, NY, USA
590.4(J) Exception:
For holiday lighting in accordance with 590.3(B), where the conductors or cables are arranged with proper strain relief devices, tension take-up devices, or other approved means to avoid damage from the movement of the live vegetation, trees shall be permitted to be used for support of overhead spans of branch circuit conductors or cables.

A small change in the '05 NEC.

otherwise vegetation is not permitted as support overhead.


Pierre Belarge

#96270 - 11/22/05 11:19 PM Re: OH conductor spans  
Steve T  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 306
Oak Park, IL, USA
PCBelarge--

Thanks for reading the 05 for me. I forget to reference it because we're still on the 02.

That little exception makes a big difference. Of course I just have to get the latest version adopted which is no quick task. Thanks again!!



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