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#95560 - 09/21/05 05:32 PM Reducing Washers  
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
Does anyone have any information on the use of reducing washers?


George Little

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#95561 - 09/21/05 05:37 PM Re: Reducing Washers  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
UL White Book

OUTLET BUSHINGS AND FITTINGS (QCRV)

Quote
GROUNDING
Metal reducing washers are considered suitable for grounding for use in
circuits over and under 250 V and where installed in accordance with
ANSI/NFPA 70, ‘‘National Electrical Code.’’


That's all I have except they make big holes small. [Linked Image]


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#95562 - 09/21/05 06:01 PM Re: Reducing Washers  
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
Thanks Bob- That's what I needed.


George Little

#95563 - 09/22/05 07:29 AM Re: Reducing Washers  
resqcapt19  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
That information really makes me question the technical expertise of UL.
Don


Don(resqcapt19)

#95564 - 09/22/05 09:09 AM Re: Reducing Washers  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Don I think the problem is the difference between test conditions and real life.

I have no doubt you or I could make reducing washers carry fault current if we used a wire brush to remove all paint from the enclosure and tightened the lock nuts decently.

However I know I see reducing washers all the time that are up against paint and loose.

I think an inspector could cite 250.12 Clean Surfaces almost every time.

Personally I dislike everything about reducing washers.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#95565 - 09/22/05 09:30 AM Re: Reducing Washers  
Ryan_J  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,374
West Jordan, Utah, USA
I discussed this matter with the UL representative of CMP 5 (Article 250). He was surprised as well, but looking at the listing standard, it appears as though under test conditions reducing washers that are listed are capable of carrying a tremendous amount of fault current. I don't recall the exat test now, but it was several thousand amps for a substantial duration.


Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City

#95566 - 09/22/05 11:45 AM Re: Reducing Washers  
resqcapt19  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
I'm sorry, but if the test conditions do not represent a real world installation, the results are worthless.
Don


Don(resqcapt19)

#95567 - 09/22/05 02:22 PM Re: Reducing Washers  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,099
Estero,Fl,usa
I vote with Bob. Reducing washers keep the connector from falling out but I would use a bonding nut if I wanted to make a secure grounding connection.


Greg Fretwell

#95568 - 09/22/05 07:27 PM Re: Reducing Washers  
Tesla  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
Sacramento, CA
Reducers -- gotta hate 'em....

Every time I see them it's a hack job.

I particularly dislike reducers used at NEMA3R disconnects where the installer is shrinking back from a 1 inch KO goof.


Tesla

#95569 - 09/22/05 08:48 PM Re: Reducing Washers  
livetoride  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 109
san diego ca usa
I hate RE plates. I would rather screw a plate in the can and make sure there is a ground wire. I have had inspectors fail an installation; he wanted reducing washers; I had bolted a cover plate to the top of the box and had a grounding bushing and ground wire in the EMT. My way was better and I proved it to him with a megger. He made me change it to pass inspection. Still scratching my head Rod.


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