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#93972 - 06/26/05 12:28 AM Closet Luminaires (Fixtures)  
George Little  Offline
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
In a clothes closet- 410.8 covers the type of Luminares (Fixtures) permitted. Seems pretty straight forward too me but I still get Contractors and Homeowners that want to use a keyless bulb holder. Duh??

I have taken the stand that I will not give final approval until this requirement is met. So remove the "Keyless" put a blank cover on it and call me in the morning, so to speak. In reality, call me when you have a Listed luminare (Fixture) installed. Meantime only a temp when you blank it up. Must be getting mean in my old age.

George Little

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#93973 - 06/26/05 02:14 AM Re: Closet Luminaires (Fixtures)  
macmikeman  Offline
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 717
Honolulu, Hawaii
George, your not mean, you are just doing your job and enforcing the electrical code. It's why they hired you for. Now my only gripe about electrical inspectors is when sometimes they want to make up thier own code - you know - the code according to Billy Bob. Or else when if they are incorect about a code and refuse to even discuss the subject. But never do I get upset with an inspector who calls me out on something if I did it wrong. Thats his job.

#93974 - 06/26/05 03:52 AM Re: Closet Luminaires (Fixtures)  
e57  Offline
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
They don't want to spend $20-$50 on a flouresant fixture, they want the $5 porcillin. "It's a closet." they'll say... I'll say, "Yes, it is, and by code needs to be placed in this location and/or be covered, or flouesant, and covered and be here...." I go through it everytime I put a light in a closet. Then you have to explain why.... Fire, combustables, etc. Time is money, what I waste explaining it, it would already be done.

A contractor should have done the explaining before you got there... Homeowner edjucation is his job, your job is to make sure he did his.

Simular note: Last week a friend of my mother-in-law's told me a horrifying story or when her house burned down. Her son came home with a guest late one night, pulled out some sheets from a linen closet with a door switch, and a bare bulb. Some sheets were left against the bulb as her sone walked away and left the door partially open. This was in the hallway, the dog woke them up, and the hallway was engulfed. They had to jump out the second story window into trees and shrubs. Everyone got hurt in some way, but made it out, including the dog that they had to throw out the window. By the time the fire dept got there that whole floor of the house, and the one next door was going up.

I think I'm going to just start with that story, rather than, "Well ya see there's this Code..."

Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

#93975 - 06/26/05 10:08 AM Re: Closet Luminaires (Fixtures)  
Alan Nadon  Offline
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 399
Elkhart, IN. USA
George, You are right ! Don't let them get away with the fire hazard.
I used to explain how easy it is to start a fire with a bare light bulb.
As of this morning I will no longer do that. I just came from a fire (yes electrical in origin) one of the suspicious items we noted was a large wad of paper toweling bundled up next to a bare bulb in the basement. The other suspicious item was a window air conditioner plugged into a two wire lamp cord.
It's bad enough when electricity causes a fire but even worse when people try to make it look like an accidental electrical fire.
Alan - Inspector.

If it was easy, anyone could do it.

#93976 - 06/26/05 12:37 PM Re: Closet Luminaires (Fixtures)  
Active 1  Offline
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 687
Grayslake IL, USA
Many local towns ammend their electrical to require all closets to have an approved light. With an exception for a linnon or for small sizes like less then 2' wide. The EC should know better then to use a keyless.

Could you also say all closet lighting outlets have to have an approved closet light fixture. A box with a blank is an lighting outlet? But a blank is not an approved closet light. Tell them they could rip out the box or put in an approved closet light.

Those PC florescents cost me less the $20.


#93977 - 06/26/05 12:57 PM Re: Closet Luminaires (Fixtures)  
Happy Birthday iwire  Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
George I can certainly agree with not signing off with the keyless in place.

I do not see how you can hold things up with a blank installed.

The NEC does not require anything in a closet.

This to me would be like a cop giving out a speeding ticket to someone with a fast car because they 'know' that at some point they will speed.

JMO, Bob

Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician

#93978 - 06/26/05 01:04 PM Re: Closet Luminaires (Fixtures)  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Active 1, there is no requirement that there be a light in the closet. Nor is ther a ban on having a junction box in the closet.

The reason that we may meet resistance when we say "you can't out a keyless in many closets" is that there are millions of us who grew up in homes with keyless lights in closets. Indeed, that's often the only place we've seen them used. I'm not surprised if folks don't know what a 'keyless' light is until I say 'like you've seen in a closet.' (Then the 'light goes on,' so to speak.)

The ban on keyless lights in closets is fairly recent, having been added to the code in '93 or '96, I think.

#93979 - 06/26/05 01:24 PM Re: Closet Luminaires (Fixtures)  
George Little  Offline
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
If the plans spec out a light in the closet then you would need a light in the closet or re-submit the plans. Told you I was mean. If there is a blanked up box in the closet and nothing requiring a light in the closet then Brother George will so indicate on the inspection report- Approve the job and move on with his life. [Linked Image]

George Little

#93980 - 06/26/05 01:32 PM Re: Closet Luminaires (Fixtures)  
e57  Offline
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
Pre-dates '93, they only changed 'area' with 'space' in its language. Don't have any older books....

'like you've seen in a closet.' I have heard that too, but try not to say it.

Funny, my 1931 house has a keyless in several closets. They're dead, from when I killed all the K&T in my insulated attic. They didn't get re-done in the re-wiring of that area.

Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

#93981 - 06/26/05 01:37 PM Re: Closet Luminaires (Fixtures)  
e57  Offline
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
George wont they just put the keyless back up after you leave?

Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

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