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#93619 - 06/01/05 11:54 PM Hot Tub Listing  
LK  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
Does a Hot Tub have to be Listed as a Package Unit?


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#93620 - 06/02/05 05:32 AM Re: Hot Tub Listing  
shortcircuit  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 608
massachusetts
LK, 680.44 recognizes field assembled Hot Tubs which would not be listed by any testing organization.

But, 90.4 gives the AHJ power to approve or disapprove of equipment and materials used.

shortcircuit


#93621 - 06/02/05 07:54 PM Re: Hot Tub Listing  
LK  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
680.44 should not be used, on the package unit, the unit was not field assy, it was built in a factory, not the field, so that brings us to the inspector, so why should he take on the liability for passing something, that was wired by factory workers, thet may or, may not be qualified to wire the package,
it looks like listed spas, is the only answer, unless the EC wants to take on the liability of the unit wiring, and i don't think his insurance underwriter would be very pleased if he did.


#93622 - 06/02/05 08:06 PM Re: Hot Tub Listing  
Speedy Petey  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 173
Upstate, NY
Because the inspector is not called to inspect the tub itself. He is called to inspect the feed to the tub.
I can't see how this is even an issue in the field.


Speedy Petey

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." -Albert Einstein

#93623 - 06/02/05 09:28 PM Re: Hot Tub Listing  
LK  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
I have seen jobs where parking lot light installations, have failed because the pole lights were not listed, commercial kitchen equipment jobs failed, because the equipment was not listed.


#93624 - 06/02/05 10:33 PM Re: Hot Tub Listing  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,809
Brick, NJ USA
Les:
Petey makes a point......I just had a thought...how about the "Inplant Inspector"??
DCA has a classification of "Inplant Inspector"; now I have something else to inquire about.

OK, now have you seen a UL label on a whirlpool? (Hydromassage Tub) Also, how about a pool? Inground or above ground? The filter/pump assembly is labeled, the heater is labeled, the pipes a NSF labeled, but...????

BTW, where the parking lot lights "imports"?

John


John

#93625 - 06/02/05 11:17 PM Re: Hot Tub Listing  
LK  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
John,

Glad to hear from someone in the trenches, yes, I always thought the way Petey does, until i ran into this problem, and yes from my point of view i agree with him, i did my job, however is the inspector going to look for a listed package, remember the package is not like a pool, which is field inspected, because listed equipment was wired in the field, whereas the spa is pre wired, not wired in the field.

For the light poles, how did you guess, yes import.

On the In Plant inspector, years back we built everything from control panels, to complete packaging lines, all without listing or inspection.

So at least i know, when i do non listed spa installs in Double Rodville, they will pass.

Thanks for the reply, shure wanted to hear from the other side.

Les


#93626 - 06/03/05 12:54 AM Re: Hot Tub Listing  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,069
Estero,Fl,usa
I kicked this over to the IAEI guys and they had an interesting view. Basically if this is not listed by a NRTL it ain't listed.
http://www.iaeifl.org/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=26&t=000148


Greg Fretwell

#93627 - 06/03/05 01:24 AM Re: Hot Tub Listing  
LK  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
gfretwell,

Great job, this is what i thought, we have a large number of spa manufactures out there selling non listed equipment.
And it appears that some inspectors are only now starting to reject these units.

Thank you,


#93628 - 06/03/05 02:16 AM Re: Hot Tub Listing  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,069
Estero,Fl,usa
<opinion alert>
IMHO
One of the problems with inspectors actually approving a design in the field is their workload. Around here they may be doing 30 or more a day so they don't really have time for an in depth inspection that they are willing to sign their name to.
It is a lot easier for the CBO to simply say "no listing, no go" and err on the safe side.


Greg Fretwell

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