ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
Photocell
by Docholiday. 01/22/18 10:52 AM
AreMetal Ladders Ever OK For Electrical Work?
by gfretwell. 01/22/18 01:15 AM
VDE 0100 to introduce AFCIs
by sparky. 01/20/18 05:09 PM
MRI LED lights dimmer control replacement - wow!
by Potseal. 01/19/18 08:52 PM
New in the Gallery:
Housebilding DIY wiring
SE cable question
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 20 guests, and 10 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Hot Tub Listing #93619
06/01/05 10:54 PM
06/01/05 10:54 PM
L
LK  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
Does a Hot Tub have to be Listed as a Package Unit?

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Hot Tub Listing #93620
06/02/05 04:32 AM
06/02/05 04:32 AM
S
shortcircuit  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 608
massachusetts
LK, 680.44 recognizes field assembled Hot Tubs which would not be listed by any testing organization.

But, 90.4 gives the AHJ power to approve or disapprove of equipment and materials used.

shortcircuit

Re: Hot Tub Listing #93621
06/02/05 06:54 PM
06/02/05 06:54 PM
L
LK  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
680.44 should not be used, on the package unit, the unit was not field assy, it was built in a factory, not the field, so that brings us to the inspector, so why should he take on the liability for passing something, that was wired by factory workers, thet may or, may not be qualified to wire the package,
it looks like listed spas, is the only answer, unless the EC wants to take on the liability of the unit wiring, and i don't think his insurance underwriter would be very pleased if he did.

Re: Hot Tub Listing #93622
06/02/05 07:06 PM
06/02/05 07:06 PM
S
Speedy Petey  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 173
Upstate, NY
Because the inspector is not called to inspect the tub itself. He is called to inspect the feed to the tub.
I can't see how this is even an issue in the field.


Speedy Petey

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." -Albert Einstein
Re: Hot Tub Listing #93623
06/02/05 08:28 PM
06/02/05 08:28 PM
L
LK  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
I have seen jobs where parking lot light installations, have failed because the pole lights were not listed, commercial kitchen equipment jobs failed, because the equipment was not listed.

Re: Hot Tub Listing #93624
06/02/05 09:33 PM
06/02/05 09:33 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,918
Brick, NJ USA
Les:
Petey makes a point......I just had a thought...how about the "Inplant Inspector"??
DCA has a classification of "Inplant Inspector"; now I have something else to inquire about.

OK, now have you seen a UL label on a whirlpool? (Hydromassage Tub) Also, how about a pool? Inground or above ground? The filter/pump assembly is labeled, the heater is labeled, the pipes a NSF labeled, but...????

BTW, where the parking lot lights "imports"?

John


John
Re: Hot Tub Listing #93625
06/02/05 10:17 PM
06/02/05 10:17 PM
L
LK  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
John,

Glad to hear from someone in the trenches, yes, I always thought the way Petey does, until i ran into this problem, and yes from my point of view i agree with him, i did my job, however is the inspector going to look for a listed package, remember the package is not like a pool, which is field inspected, because listed equipment was wired in the field, whereas the spa is pre wired, not wired in the field.

For the light poles, how did you guess, yes import.

On the In Plant inspector, years back we built everything from control panels, to complete packaging lines, all without listing or inspection.

So at least i know, when i do non listed spa installs in Double Rodville, they will pass.

Thanks for the reply, shure wanted to hear from the other side.

Les

Re: Hot Tub Listing #93626
06/02/05 11:54 PM
06/02/05 11:54 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,167
Estero,Fl,usa
I kicked this over to the IAEI guys and they had an interesting view. Basically if this is not listed by a NRTL it ain't listed.
http://www.iaeifl.org/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=26&t=000148


Greg Fretwell
Re: Hot Tub Listing #93627
06/03/05 12:24 AM
06/03/05 12:24 AM
L
LK  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
gfretwell,

Great job, this is what i thought, we have a large number of spa manufactures out there selling non listed equipment.
And it appears that some inspectors are only now starting to reject these units.

Thank you,

Re: Hot Tub Listing #93628
06/03/05 01:16 AM
06/03/05 01:16 AM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,167
Estero,Fl,usa
<opinion alert>
IMHO
One of the problems with inspectors actually approving a design in the field is their workload. Around here they may be doing 30 or more a day so they don't really have time for an in depth inspection that they are willing to sign their name to.
It is a lot easier for the CBO to simply say "no listing, no go" and err on the safe side.


Greg Fretwell
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
electure
electure
Fullerton, CA USA
Posts: 4,264
Joined: December 2000
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 21
sparky 15
Potseal 15
Popular Topics(Views)
243,595 Are you busy
180,392 Re: Forum
170,861 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.032s Queries: 15 (0.006s) Memory: 1.0224 MB (Peak: 1.2002 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-01-22 16:24:40 UTC