ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
VDE 0100 to introduce AFCIs
by sparky. 01/20/18 05:09 PM
MRI LED lights dimmer control replacement - wow!
by Potseal. 01/19/18 08:52 PM
Video: Inventor of the GFCI self-testing shocks
by Bill Addiss. 01/17/18 11:11 PM
FPE in Germany
by HotLine1. 01/17/18 07:07 PM
Fujifilm Recalls Power Adapter Wall Plugs
by Admin. 01/16/18 07:04 PM
New in the Gallery:
Housebilding DIY wiring
SE cable question
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (sparky), 7 guests, and 12 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Larger breaker downstream #90043
10/28/04 10:49 AM
10/28/04 10:49 AM
W
watthead  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 172
South Carolina
I had initally installed a 100 amp panel but needed more spaces so I changed it out for a 200 amp main breaker panel inside the house. Outside there is a meter / 12 circuit panel (6 switch) service equipment, in which I installed a 100 amp 2 pole and a 100 amp four wire feeder to sub panel inside. Inspector didn't like the 200 amp main downstream. I was unaware that this installation would violate any code 2002. If it does please let me know which one so at least I will know what the reference is.
Inspector failed the installation without any code reference, and when asked for one, he said "TELL ME WHERE IT SAYS YOU CAN DO THAT." This guy went off when I asked him for the reference. I was not out of line as I am not entirely stupid and have talked my way out of a few tickets etc.. Told me I would have to set up appointment at his office for next week to talk about it. I would hate to think he is looking for a dead president to change his mind. [Linked Image] [Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by watthead (edited 10-28-2004).]

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Larger breaker downstream #90044
10/28/04 12:23 PM
10/28/04 12:23 PM
H
hbiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 886
Hawthorne, NY USA
Well, you could have saved yourself some money (and not had this problem) by using a main lug panel since a main breaker is not required in this sub panel. You have a 100A feeder that is protected by a 100A breaker.

That said, I can't see any code article that this would violate. You could say that it is simply a disconnect which are often sized larger than their circuit OCPD.

-Hal

Re: Larger breaker downstream #90045
10/28/04 02:27 PM
10/28/04 02:27 PM
W
winnie  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 649
boston, ma
Given the economics of mass distribution, it may be cheaper to buy a 200A service panel with a main breaker then to get a 'non standard' main lug only panel [Linked Image]

Installing a 200A subpanel would seem to make it easier to improperly load the 100A feeder, but if your demand calculation shows that 100A is sufficient, I see no problems. When the time comes for the discussion with the inspector, I'd make sure to have the demand calculation written out in detail.

As far as arguing with the inspector, I think that the only real issue that he could have is that this 200A breaker is not properly 'coordinated' with the upstream breaker. It is generally good design practise to coordinate breakers so that the breaker nearest a fault will trip. I don't believe that there is a explicit NEC requirement for coordination, and you may need to explain that coordination is not needed here [Linked Image]

-Jon

As hbiss said, if you consider this breaker simply to be a disconnect switch,

Re: Larger breaker downstream #90046
10/28/04 11:45 PM
10/28/04 11:45 PM
E
e57  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
S.F.,CA USA
"TELL ME WHERE IT SAYS YOU CAN DO THAT."

Tell you where it says you can not do that.

Other than that, is a 100A cb or main lug kit available to swap out to get him off your back in case? You may have to deal with this personality again.


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
Re: Larger breaker downstream #90047
10/29/04 08:08 AM
10/29/04 08:08 AM
R
Ron  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 582
White Plains, NY
In this case the 200A main breaker is acting as a local disconnect which happens to be rated at 200A. For example, a condenser unit may have a 40A breaker, 40A wire and a 60A local disconnect (next standard size). Will he reject the 60 disco?

No code requirement for protective device coordination.


Ron
Re: Larger breaker downstream #90048
10/29/04 08:41 AM
10/29/04 08:41 AM
C
cpal  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 162
Cohasset MA
I do not believe you stated that the exterior panel was locked or capable of being locked but this may have prompted the inspectors decision

230.92 Locked Service Overcurrent Devices.
Where the service overcurrent devices are locked or sealed or are not readily accessible to the occupant, branch-circuit overcurrent devices shall be installed on the load side, shall be mounted in a readily accessible location, and shall be of lower ampere rating than the service overcurrent device.

The main lug panel might be a good choice.

Charlie

Re: Larger breaker downstream #90049
10/29/04 08:58 PM
10/29/04 08:58 PM
G
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
The 200a main is not a branch circuit, so I say there is no violation. All conductors are properly protected ans there can be no overloading of the branches if they are properly protected with the correct breakers.


George Little
Re: Larger breaker downstream #90050
10/30/04 06:42 AM
10/30/04 06:42 AM
W
watthead  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 172
South Carolina
charlie
The exterior panel is not locked and is readily accessible to the occupant as it is a single family residence.

Re: Larger breaker downstream #90051
10/31/04 08:38 AM
10/31/04 08:38 AM
E
earlydean  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 751
Griswold, CT, USA
Tell that hillbilly inspector that he needs to cite you with a code section or your alleged violation will not hold up in court.


Earl
Re: Larger breaker downstream #90052
10/31/04 08:55 AM
10/31/04 08:55 AM
C
CharlieE  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 200
Indianapolis
I am not so sure that name-calling helps anyone. [Linked Image]

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Charlie Eldridge, Indianapolis, Utility Power Guy


Charlie Eldridge, Indianapolis Utility Power Guy
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
BEAMEUP
BEAMEUP
WA
Posts: 27
Joined: December 2004
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 20
Potseal 15
sparky 15
Popular Topics(Views)
243,571 Are you busy
180,368 Re: Forum
170,845 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.028s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 1.0259 MB (Peak: 1.2006 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-01-20 22:45:06 UTC