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#89653 - 10/12/04 05:20 PM Building Steel GEC or Water Pipe GEC?  
mustangelectric  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 494
Bentonville, AR
Hi,
Is connecting the gec to building steel on a commercial job accpetable versus cold water bond?

it seems to me that you need both but parallel paths could be an issue.

i am looking at a riser diagram that calls for 3 3/4"X8' ground rods placed 10 feet apart and instructions to connect to building steel where possible..

it seems to me that you need a building steel connection and you need a cold water bond..200A service requires a #6 AWG GEC to a made electrode..and a #4 AWG GEC to cold water..correct?

thanks

mustang

thanks for any replies.


Electricity has no respect for ignorance!

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#89654 - 10/12/04 06:05 PM Re: Building Steel GEC or Water Pipe GEC?  
Ryan_J  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,374
West Jordan, Utah, USA
You must use all available electrodes. See 250.50

As far as the sizing goes, yes, you are correct.


Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City

#89655 - 10/12/04 06:07 PM Re: Building Steel GEC or Water Pipe GEC?  
trekkie76  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 220
baileyville, maine, usa
250-50 says if available bond every thing together. sizes look good. #4 also to the steel.
Ryan you beat me [Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by trekkie76 (edited 10-12-2004).]


#89656 - 10/12/04 07:22 PM Re: Building Steel GEC or Water Pipe GEC?  
mustangelectric  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 494
Bentonville, AR
so you are saying that there SHOULD be a cold water bond IF AVAILABLE?

i am asking because i am working from a set of plans that just ask to bond to three 3/4 X 8' ground rods and to the building steel. the building has copper piping installed. i always bond the copper at the point of entry into the building or first accessible loc

should i make a revision on the dwgs and call for a COLD WATER BOND using a #4 AWG? and should I revise the dwgs to call for a #4 AWG to the ground rods and the building steel? I though #6 was good for MADE ELECTRODES?

sorry if this is elementary to you...grounding is the most important part of any electrical system and it is one of the FUZZIEST too!

i am big on grounding!

thanks

mustang


Electricity has no respect for ignorance!

#89657 - 10/12/04 07:35 PM Re: Building Steel GEC or Water Pipe GEC?  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
This may help

[Linked Image]

The engineer is free to ask for more than code minimums.

The Power company around here asks for 4/0 to 3/4" 10' ground rods at transformer pads.

The NEC would say 6 AWG would be enough.

Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#89658 - 10/12/04 07:36 PM Re: Building Steel GEC or Water Pipe GEC?  
Ryan_J  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,374
West Jordan, Utah, USA
Yes, if it is there and meets the description of an electrode, you must bond it with (in your case) a #4.


Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City

#89659 - 10/12/04 08:46 PM Re: Building Steel GEC or Water Pipe GEC?  
mustangelectric  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 494
Bentonville, AR
yes that slide clearly shows the best means to accomplish a proper grounding system

That looks like the same slide on the first page of the NEC handbook

and thanks for the follow up comments regarding the #4

thank you very much!

mustang



[This message has been edited by mustangelectric (edited 10-13-2004).]


Electricity has no respect for ignorance!

#89660 - 10/13/04 10:33 AM Re: Building Steel GEC or Water Pipe GEC?  
mustangelectric  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 494
Bentonville, AR
are the articles:

GEC:250.66
Bonding Jumper: 250.122

regards

mustang

[This message has been edited by mustangelectric (edited 10-13-2004).]


Electricity has no respect for ignorance!

#89661 - 10/13/04 10:51 AM Re: Building Steel GEC or Water Pipe GEC?  
eprice  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 64
North Logan, Utah, USA
Quote
are the articles:
GEC:250.66
Bonding Jumper: 250.122


No, when we're talking about bonding jumpers within the grounding electrode system, they are also sized according to 250.66. (see 250.53(C))


#89662 - 10/13/04 05:29 PM Re: Building Steel GEC or Water Pipe GEC?  
trekkie76  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 220
baileyville, maine, usa
to the made electrodes does only have to be #6. I was talking about to the steel being #4


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