ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Potseal 11
sparky 5
Recent Posts
Permit Snafus...AHJs and Contractors Jump in
by sparky. 04/29/17 05:59 PM
201 volt equipment?
by bigpapa. 04/29/17 12:15 AM
Schneider LC1D09
by jraef. 04/28/17 11:05 PM
Electrode boilers question
by annemarie1. 04/27/17 01:40 PM
Why cables look like they do
by LongRunner. 04/26/17 09:36 AM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
235,015 Are you busy
169,862 Re: Forum
163,052 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 52 guests, and 7 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#89614 - 10/10/04 07:34 AM romex from the 1960's  
shortcircuit  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 608
massachusetts
I want to upgrade the plugs to ground type in a house built in the 1960's.The old romex has a reduced size (#16 I think)grounding conductor in the cable that is wraped around the romex and pinched in the connector or under the clamp of the metal box.
What is the correct way to convert to ground type plugs in this case?
Is the reduced size ground wire in the romex OK to use for grounding?

shortcircuit


2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#89615 - 10/10/04 08:20 AM Re: romex from the 1960's  
CharlieE  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 200
Indianapolis
There is nothing wrong with the reduced size grounding conductors. The reason the grounding conductors were required to be made to match the circuit conductors in the smaller cables (#10, #12, and #14) is that too many DIYs and jacklegs were using the grounding conductors for circuit conductors. I have even seen the grounding conductor used as a phase conductor where a single-phase switch was converted to a three way without replacing the cable (they just taped up the grounding conductor and connected it to the switch and light fixture).

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Charlie Eldridge, Indianapolis, Utility Power Guy


Charlie Eldridge, Indianapolis Utility Power Guy

#89616 - 10/10/04 11:12 AM Re: romex from the 1960's  
shortcircuit  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 608
massachusetts
Table 250.122 requires a #14 copper grounding conductor for a 15 amp overcurrent device protected circuit...so how can the #16 grounding conducter in the old romex be used for grounding when upgrading a house to grounded plugs?Is there an exception somewhere?

shortcircuit


#89617 - 10/10/04 11:27 AM Re: romex from the 1960's  
jdevlin  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 402
welland ontario canada
Wouldn't the existing ground conductor be considered grandfather in? It met exisitng codes at time of install.


#89618 - 10/10/04 11:40 AM Re: romex from the 1960's  
capt al  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 206
Norton, Ma USA
shortcircuit, If you are doing this in MA check 406.3(D)(3)(b). 250.130 (C) is not acceptable under MEC.


#89619 - 10/10/04 11:45 AM Re: romex from the 1960's  
BigB  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 719
Tucson, AZ USA
Charlie, I was taught the reason the grounding conductors size was increased was for fault clearing, that is, to prevent the grounding conductor from burning open before the OCPD opens.


#89620 - 10/10/04 12:38 PM Re: romex from the 1960's  
CharlieE  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 200
Indianapolis
BigB, the smaller wire works just fine for fault clearing the same as smaller wire works for fault clearing on larger circuits. Remember that the fault will be cleared before the current will destroy the grounding conductor or table 250.122 would not be valid.

Depending upon where you are working, you may or may not be "grandfathered". You need to check with your local laws and ordinances. In Indiana, you are permitted to continue to wire an addition with the Code that was in force when the home was built. [Linked Image]

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Charlie Eldridge, Indianapolis, Utility Power Guy


Charlie Eldridge, Indianapolis Utility Power Guy

#89621 - 10/12/04 12:43 AM Re: romex from the 1960's  
e57  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
S.F.,CA USA
Table 250.122 has full size grounds for circuits 15 - 30A!

15=14
20=12
30=10

But I too believe it should be OK as an existing installation. Just check with the AHJ, to be sure. If not, GFCI them!


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

#89622 - 10/12/04 01:14 AM Re: romex from the 1960's  
NORCAL  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 869
If it met the code in effect at the time of installation shouldnt it be Grandfathered in?I was always under the impression that the code was not retroactive but, assuming things can cause lots of trouble.


#89623 - 10/12/04 06:42 AM Re: romex from the 1960's  
CharlieE  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 200
Indianapolis
Quote
Table 250.122 has full size grounds for circuits 15 - 30A!
E57, I understand that, please read my first post and then my second post. [Linked Image]

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Charlie Eldridge, Indianapolis, Utility Power Guy


Charlie Eldridge, Indianapolis Utility Power Guy

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Member Spotlight
HotLine1
HotLine1
Brick, NJ USA
Posts: 6,811
Joined: April 2002
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.023s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8169 MB (Peak: 0.9936 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-04-30 14:38:47 UTC