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#8890 - 04/08/02 09:50 PM Knob and Tube  
NonLinearLoad  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 53
McHenry, IL. USA
Where does liability start and stop?
140 yr. old hse., partial remodel, demo, some damage to knob and tube in work.
Redoing kitchen and dining area complete. This requires a new 200A service to handle the new juice, as well as help out the overloaded existing house. About a 5000 sqft hse. that has seen a few additions already, plus the add-on electric scenario a few times. We got knob and tube, AC, NM, EMT, lampcord. I tossed a price off the cuff not being able to see all that was bad, expecting the worse. Eliminating all knob and tube, fishing AC from base to 1st, attic to 2nd, with new HR's base to attic to wire 2nd properly(new master bath with all the goodies),EMT everywhere possible, gutting the fire hazard of a base.
$40,000-$50,000... they said that was the budget for the whole project. So, they want the new service, the kitchen, and dining done. Put GFI's in all the locations not grounded, don't replace any knob and tube. Too bad the knob and tube passes through the kitchen for the rest of the hse, and that is where the vaulted ceiling is going to be, now all of it gets touched.This is all to sell as soon as the work is done.
Do you take on all this LIABILITY? If the service alone is changed, how much liability do you take?


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#8891 - 04/08/02 11:28 PM Re: Knob and Tube  
George Corron  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 717
Lorton, Va USA
You only take liability for the work YOU performed. I would make field notes on any irregularities you find. Keep in mind, just cause you don't like Knob and Tube, doesn't mean it was not legal when installed, and frankly, I've seen bunches of this stuff that still works just fine.

Take pics of anything you think dangerous, not necessary to make an issue of it beyond pointing out the problem to some Responsible Person from the GC, then put in your field book, who you pointed it out to [Linked Image]

The word here is CYA, but I would not be concerned about liability for any work other than what you install, at least that's the way it works in most States.

Might wanna make certain your permit clearly specifies what areas you will be working in as well.


#8892 - 04/09/02 04:28 AM Re: Knob and Tube  
nesparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 642
omaha,ne
I would invite the electrical inspector in before I started any work. This has the potential to be a money loosing headache.
Nothing wrong with knob and tube that still in good shape. Problem is you do not know what some one else has done to it.
Some local AHJ's have thier rules on what they will accept and what and how far you have to go on remodels. If what the owners want is acceptable to the AHJ go for it. If not get the scope of work and money right before hand


ed

#8893 - 04/09/02 06:06 AM Re: Knob and Tube  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,308
Just walk away......
If the customer is from the "chase a quarter down the street & beat it into 6 nickles" school who needs 'em?


#8894 - 04/09/02 01:50 PM Re: Knob and Tube  
mamills  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 745
Wharton, Texas, USA
Just my two cents worth...
If you do the job, and assuming that the Knob and Tube work is in good shape, be certain to undersize the OCPD's for those circuits.

Sparky does have a good point, though...an electrical system is not the place to practice cheap economics.

Mike (mamills)


#8895 - 04/11/02 10:11 AM Re: Knob and Tube  
Anonymous
Unregistered

If you go onto a job and do some work and you do know about the problems that exist you are responsible for ALL of the work that has been done there unless you contact an inspector and he oks what the problem is. Even if you don't touch it, it can turn around a bite ya in the @ss.


#8896 - 04/11/02 04:29 PM Re: Knob and Tube  
Electricmanscott  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
Ski force, that is bull. You are only responsible for what YOU do. Paper trail is great for covering your ass. Detailed invoice with the work you did. Note to owner of other potential problems. Permits. That kind of thing.


#8897 - 04/11/02 09:53 PM Re: Knob and Tube  
NonLinearLoad  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 53
McHenry, IL. USA
I agree with the concensus. And I forgot to state the fact that there is no permit on this one. I guess that if a contract was drawn up for any concerns on my part that the home owner declined to address, it would be a cya. Of course this one looks like the never ending pile of poop. And for this one, I said they could shag the parts, and T&M on a day to day basis.Unfortunately, they have started some demo here and there, oops?, don't think we should have hit those wires. And a fella there gave me the "yeah, there were sparks all over the place", "we think they got everything off?". Yet, all the breakers are on in the last update of a panel. [Linked Image]



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