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#88221 - 05/23/04 02:54 PM Number of Services / Disconnects  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Is this service correct?

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

No mains at meter, no mains at panels, 24 throws of the hand to kill the whole building.


[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 05-23-2004).]


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#88222 - 05/23/04 03:25 PM Re: Number of Services / Disconnects  
txsparky  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 552
Magnolia,.Texas U.S.A.
Not around here!


Donnie

#88223 - 05/23/04 03:30 PM Re: Number of Services / Disconnects  
koz-man  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 10
Scranton Pa, USA
Violation...Art 230.70

Frank


#88224 - 05/23/04 03:33 PM Re: Number of Services / Disconnects  
CTwireman  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 840
Connecticut, USA
Is this another trick question Bob? [Linked Image]

I say yes, it is correct, as long as the panels contain less than 6 breakers each.

More than that, and the panels need to be changed to main breakers. With all those new wires hanging there, that looks like what you are going to do.

Peter


Peter

#88225 - 05/23/04 04:12 PM Re: Number of Services / Disconnects  
Roger  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,716
N.C.
It is Legal. Frank look at 230.71 and take note of the wording "six sets of circuit breakers" [Linked Image]

Roger


#88226 - 05/23/04 04:36 PM Re: Number of Services / Disconnects  
caselec  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 558
San Jose, CA
I realize that the discussion is about the number of service disconnects but……..
What size are the circuit breakers in the panels? It looks like most of them are single pole so these would be lighting and appliance panels 408.14(B). If so they wouldn’t comply with 408.16(A). Exception 2 does permit this for existing installations but these services don’t look very old.


Curt Swartz

#88227 - 05/23/04 04:37 PM Re: Number of Services / Disconnects  
koz-man  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 10
Scranton Pa, USA
So you'll telling me that each panel doesn't need a main disconnecting means. I'm finding this very hard to accept.

What about Art. 230.79 (D) All other installations (multi-family) shall have a service disconnecting means rating of not less than 60 amperes.

Frank


#88228 - 05/23/04 04:59 PM Re: Number of Services / Disconnects  
DougW  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,143
North Chicago, IL
I second the motion...

[ghettoEC] WHERE MY MAINS AT!!!! YOU DOWN WITH OCP? YOU GO, EC![/ghettoEC]


#88229 - 05/23/04 05:42 PM Re: Number of Services / Disconnects  
BPHgravity  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 139
Port Charlotte, Florida
I don't see how the term "sets" applies to this example. It's been my understanding that the term "sets" was added to allow multiple single pole brekers to be handle tied into one switch. (ROP 4-117, 4-118 and ROC 4-69)

As far as the original question goes, I don't see how this installation is permitted. I only see one service. There may be 4 service entrance conductors supplying 4 separate service enclosures, but I don't think the additional service entrances meet any of the exceptions to section 230.40 permitted by 230.71(A). Exception #2 could be used for the the multiple sets of service entrances, but is not allowed to be used for the purposes of 230.71(A) requirments. I feel its a violation unless someone can show otherwise.


Bryan P. Holland, ECO.
Secretary - IAEI Florida Chapter

#88230 - 05/23/04 05:46 PM Re: Number of Services / Disconnects  
caselec  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 558
San Jose, CA
Frank,

230.71 permits more than one service disconnect. 230.80 permits the combined rating of multiple disconnects to be used to comply with 230.79.

Curt


Curt Swartz

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