ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
VDE 0100 to introduce AFCIs
by sparky. 01/20/18 05:09 PM
MRI LED lights dimmer control replacement - wow!
by Potseal. 01/19/18 08:52 PM
Video: Inventor of the GFCI self-testing shocks
by Bill Addiss. 01/17/18 11:11 PM
FPE in Germany
by HotLine1. 01/17/18 07:07 PM
Fujifilm Recalls Power Adapter Wall Plugs
by Admin. 01/16/18 07:04 PM
New in the Gallery:
Housebilding DIY wiring
SE cable question
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 16 guests, and 14 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Oversized panels supplied by existing service entry conductors #87928
05/04/04 03:15 PM
05/04/04 03:15 PM
T
tdhorne  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 345
Maryland, USA
I've been running into a lot of panel change outs that were done years ago in order to provide for more branch circuits with no increase in the size of the service entry conductors. One I surveyed this morning was a two hundred ampere split buss panel that was connected to a sixty ampere service entry cable. The customer is asking that the existing panel be updated to breakers. I had to give him the bad news that he was looking at a heavy up rather than a simple change out.

My question is how much of this sort of thing do others see.
--
Tom H


Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use" Thomas Alva Edison
2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Oversized panels supplied by existing service entry conductors #87929
05/04/04 04:36 PM
05/04/04 04:36 PM
F
Fred  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 449
Straughn, IN 47387
I see a lot of this. 100A panels with the original 60A meter socket and #6 cloth covered SE cable risor. Most I have seen were done in the last few years by a cheap HO that was told by a realtor they had to upgrade to sell the house and the "home inspector" didn't catch it. On the other hand, I saw one this week where a lady had just purchased this house last month and had her own "home inspector out last week to check everything out. She called me because he had noted that the service conductors were the wrong size and she was afraid she had a potential fire on her hands. The panel was an ITE 150A 30 circuit Main breaker circa 1970 and in good shape. The "wrong sized" conductors were 4/0 copper. The inspector's report stated that the service entrance conductors for a 150A service should not be larger than #1 copper or 2/0 aluminum. I had a hard time convincing her it was okay to go bigger. The old ITE panel had lugs that were marked to accept 250.

Re: Oversized panels supplied by existing service entry conductors #87930
05/04/04 09:54 PM
05/04/04 09:54 PM
D
djpep55  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 29
Crystal Lake, IL USA
If the homeowner doesn't have me fix these I report it to the POCO and local building department. It's not that I'm upset about not getting the job, but rather upset about the potential for loss of life. I don't care if I fix it or someone else does, as long as it's fixed. There are typically other violations as well...such as grounding.

Re: Oversized panels supplied by existing service entry conductors #87931
05/05/04 10:12 PM
05/05/04 10:12 PM
P
PCBelarge  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 681
Dobbs Ferry, NY, USA
The service entrance conductors have to be sized according to 230.42... the load calculated.
But... 230.90(A) Says the overcurrent protection of the service conductors cannot exceed the allowable ampacity of the service conductors.

Pierre


Pierre Belarge

Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
Scott35
Scott35
Anaheim, CA. USA
Posts: 2,708
Joined: October 2000
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 20
sparky 16
Potseal 15
Popular Topics(Views)
243,583 Are you busy
180,379 Re: Forum
170,856 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.012s Queries: 14 (0.003s) Memory: 0.9589 MB (Peak: 1.0902 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-01-21 20:08:11 UTC