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#87499 - 03/13/04 11:26 PM Wires in canopy?  
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
I've always enforced the need for a properly sized J-box for splicing fixture wires to the branch circuit conductors and not permitted the installer to rely on the canopy for this purpose. Am I wrong?


George Little

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#87500 - 03/14/04 09:44 AM Re: Wires in canopy?  
electure  Offline


Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,259
Fullerton, CA USA
Up to 4 #14 or smaller fixture wires aren't counted in box fill anyway, so a box that is properly sized for the branch circuit conductors is sufficient. See 314.16 (B)(1) Exception.

410.10 Space for Conductors
Canopies and oulet boxes taken together shall provide adequate space so that luminaire (fixture) conductors and their connecting devices can be properly installed.
The italics are mine.


#87501 - 03/14/04 04:15 PM Re: Wires in canopy?  
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
Thanks for your insight. I guess I'll will take a different view of this subject thanks for the code reference. I still am kinda nervous about allowing someone to install a 3" pan box with two 14/2 w/g for connection of a luminaire. I think I'll ask him for some specs on the proposed fixture, I'm sorry, luminaire.


George Little

#87502 - 03/14/04 05:27 PM Re: Wires in canopy?  
caselec  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 558
San Jose, CA
George

The exception that Scott (electure) posted above applies to the fixture wires not the branch circuit conductors. Using a 3/0 pancake box with even one 14-2 NM cable is a violation unless the box is extended with an extension ring or canopy that is marked with its cubic inch capacity. I have never seen a fixture canopy that has been marked with its capacity. A single 14-2 NM cable would require a minimum of 6 cubic inches if an external clamp is used or 8 cubic inches if an internal clamp is used. A 3/0 pancake has a 4 cubic inch capacity. Two 14-2 NM cables would require 10 cubic inches with internal clamps or 12 cubic inches with internal clamps.

Curt


Curt Swartz

#87503 - 03/14/04 11:17 PM Re: Wires in canopy?  
Ryan_J  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,374
West Jordan, Utah, USA
When I inspect I allow (1) 14-2 NM cable in a 3-0 pancake box. I realize that it is not permitted, but I also realize that sometimes that is the only way you can go about the installation. I will not, however, allow (2) 14-2's or (1) 12-2.


Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City

#87504 - 03/23/04 10:01 PM Re: Wires in canopy?  
triple  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 184
Wisconsin
Actually, electure, those four fixture wires you refer to have to be SMALLER than #14 (not "14 or smaller") in order to avoid using them in fill calculations. See: 314.16(B)(1)


#87505 - 03/24/04 07:33 PM Re: Wires in canopy?  
Jim M  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 457
Chestertown, MD, USA
Ryan,

Why don't they use 4" pancake boxes instead of the 3". I have only seen the 3" on very old work like K&T. Is this a regional thing?


#87506 - 03/24/04 08:37 PM Re: Wires in canopy?  
Ryan_J  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,374
West Jordan, Utah, USA
Hi Jim. I wish I could answer your question, but I'm afraid that it is a question I also ask. I can't figure it out. :0


Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City

#87507 - 03/27/04 12:56 AM Re: Wires in canopy?  
PCBelarge  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 681
Dobbs Ferry, NY, USA
If the installation of a 4 inch canopy on a 3 inch box is performed where the surface is combustible, it is a violation of 410.13.

Pierre


Pierre Belarge

#87508 - 03/27/04 12:53 PM Re: Wires in canopy?  
electure  Offline


Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,259
Fullerton, CA USA
Triple,
Thank You! Sometimes I suffer from "Hoof in Mouth" disease.

Smaller than #14...S



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