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#87042 - 01/16/04 08:27 PM Kitchen counter tops  
Ryan_J  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,374
West Jordan, Utah, USA
Would you ask for GFCI protection for the area on the left (foreground)?

[Linked Image]


Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#87043 - 01/16/04 08:59 PM Re: Kitchen counter tops  
NJwirenut  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 806
Bergen County, NJ
If I were homeowner--absolutely.

If I were AHJ--nope. It might be a good idea, but I don't think the NEC requires it here. Too far from the sink.


#87044 - 01/16/04 09:31 PM Re: Kitchen counter tops  
electricman2  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 269
Thomasville, NC USA
210.8(A)(6)specifies GFCI in kitchens where receptacles are installed to serve the countertop surfaces. Is this a countertop surface? Since "countertop surface" is not defined, could you call it a work surface or something else? Is this a part of the kitchen? Food for thought here.


John

#87045 - 01/16/04 09:50 PM Re: Kitchen counter tops  
Ryan_J  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,374
West Jordan, Utah, USA
Wirenut: Where in 21.8 is proximity to the sink addressed?

Electircman: Food for thought indeed. Thats why I posted it [Linked Image]

I think we can get some good conversation here.

BTW: Where does the kitchen end? Is it the passageway on the left? Is it the transition from the hardwood floor to the carpet?

Let me add that the material is the same as the countertop near the sink.


Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City

#87046 - 01/16/04 09:56 PM Re: Kitchen counter tops  
stamcon  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 329
So San Francisco CA
Ryan, it looks like a "desktop" to me.


#87047 - 01/16/04 09:59 PM Re: Kitchen counter tops  
Ryan_J  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,374
West Jordan, Utah, USA
Stamcon: I have no problem with your interpretation, but would the judge and jury have a problem with it if someone got killed? A human death is what got the requirement in commercial kitchens, as you know.


Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City

#87048 - 01/16/04 10:26 PM Re: Kitchen counter tops  
electricman2  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 269
Thomasville, NC USA
Quote by Ryan
Quote
I think we can get some good conversation here.

Like the firehouse kitchen thread, huh? [Linked Image]


John

#87049 - 01/16/04 10:37 PM Re: Kitchen counter tops  
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,878
NY, USA
Ryan,

What do the Plans say that room is?

[Linked Image]
Bill


#87050 - 01/16/04 10:41 PM Re: Kitchen counter tops  
Roger  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,716
N.C.
Here's my take on this. If there is no code that would define a line (real or imaginary)
to separate this area from the kitchen, then by the open space alone, I'd consider it an extension of the kitchen by design.

Roger


#87051 - 01/16/04 11:01 PM Re: Kitchen counter tops  
stamcon  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 329
So San Francisco CA
Ryan, when the '99NEC specifies GFCI's on receptacles serving residential kitchen
"countertops" and not all kitchen receptacles, where do we draw the line for safety? Why not all receptacles in the house be GFCI and AFCI? When the NEC considers the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room and dining room as different rooms(small appliance circuits), who makes the call as to what the room is? What's stated on the plans?

steve


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