ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
twh 10
Admin 4
Recent Posts
Dryer, Range grounding from "Main" panel
by sparkync. 05/23/17 03:32 PM
Any UL 508 experts out there?
by sparkyinak. 05/21/17 08:57 PM
Heat pump conundrum
by sparkyinak. 05/21/17 08:49 PM
Interesting week
by HotLine1. 05/20/17 11:57 AM
Electrical Pricing Guide
by ElectricianBud. 05/18/17 12:17 PM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
236,661 Are you busy
171,333 Re: Forum
164,393 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 82 guests, and 10 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#86116 - 09/11/03 06:53 PM Service grounding  
bwise121  Offline
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 114
Sacramento, CA USA
I'm helping a friend upgrade two panels on a duplex he owns. The panels are right next to eachother. Each panel will be 100 amp.
The plan is to go up with one riser rated for 200 amp and bring that into a gutter. From the gutter, split into two 100 amp panels below.

I'm familiar with grounding for regular single family homes, but in this case I'm not sure if I'm needing to double up all the grounding.

I don't have a ufer so I'll use the water main as the main grounding electrode (it is metal going into the ground), secondary electrode will be a 8' ground rod. Lastly, I'll bond the gas at the hot water heater. All of this will be done in #4 bare wire.

This being said, I'm sure I don't have to put in two ground rods and run two #4 wires to the water for each panel. How is this normally done?

Any suggestions or advice on this would be appreciated... also, what is the differnece between grounding and bonding?


2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#86117 - 09/12/03 06:13 AM Re: Service grounding  
zapped208  Offline
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 196
Somewhere in USA
What is a ufer? We do not use that term here in Pa or Ny. Thanks.

Shoot first, apologize later.....maybe

#86118 - 09/12/03 08:30 AM Re: Service grounding  
jnsells  Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2
Nashville, TN
The grounding electrode conductors can be spliced together in the gutter, then one grounding electrode conductor run to your grounding electrode(s), with the size based on a 100 amp service. Of course, the gutter has to be bonded also. Soares book on grounding has good illustrations of this.

Although the code requires gas piping to be bonded, several AHJ's and local gas companies will not allow to check first.

For our friends in PA & NY, a UFER is a concrete encased grounding electrode, typically rebar within the foundation. The UFER ground system was actually developed during World War II by Herbert G. Ufer, a retired vice president of U.L.

#86119 - 09/12/03 07:05 PM Re: Service grounding  
bwise121  Offline
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 114
Sacramento, CA USA
Although some interesting comments I'm not finding this helpful.
Example of the kind of explaination I'm looking for follows:
Take the Grounding electrode and the conductor from the ground rod to one panel then take a grounding jumper from the first panel to the second panel.

Please reply,

#86120 - 09/12/03 09:12 PM Re: Service grounding  
Electricmanscott  Offline
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
If it's do it yourself info you need you might be in the wrong place. By the way where are the meters? I can think of no reason to have a gutter.

#86121 - 09/12/03 10:53 PM Re: Service grounding  
Scott35  Offline

Broom Pusher and
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,707
Anaheim, CA. USA
I agree with Electricmanscott, especially since jnsells' post answers the question concisely.

Sorry if this sounds offensive (which it's not intended to be at all!).


Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

#86122 - 09/12/03 11:55 PM Re: Service grounding  
bwise121  Offline
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 114
Sacramento, CA USA
No offense taken. I guess I was looking for someone to say point A goes to point B. I have purchased some electrical books and I am educating myself. This is a very useful board and I intend to use it in the future.

As for the gutter, I'm only following the advice of fellow electricains that have done similar work. I guess the idea is to have one riser. The existing panels are right next to eachother, so it would make sense for the riser to come into the gutter and then each conductor into a landing lug then to the line side of meter.

Sound okay?

Many thanks and have a good weekend.


#86123 - 09/13/03 01:44 PM Re: Service grounding  
PCBelarge  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 681
Dobbs Ferry, NY, USA
Your bio does not state your occupation, I am curious why? This leads the pros here to be cautious as to how much info they give, because all the info given to a novice or homeowner will still not be enough. There is so much more to this industry than point A to point B!


Pierre Belarge

#86124 - 09/13/03 02:34 PM Re: Service grounding  
Electricmanscott  Offline
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
For a two family I would use a 2 gang meter socket. One 200 amp riser from that, a hundred amp feeder to each panel. I see no need for a gutter at all. This is all the info I can give as this is NOT a do it yourself project and while it is good to see you trying to learn, this board and some books are not going to make you an electrician. If I lived in that duplex I would not be happy to know the wiring is being done by some handymen. In fact I would notify the local authorities.

#86125 - 09/13/03 02:57 PM Re: Service grounding  
bwise121  Offline
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 114
Sacramento, CA USA
LOL very funny. Sorry to misguide you as to thinking I'm a handyman by the fact that I'm helping a friend out. I'm a licensed electrician here in California. This isn't my expertise so I was trying to find some info on grounding multi-family homes. I mostly have done commercial and single family homes. Again, the idea of a gutter with two 100 Amp panels was new to me and thats what I was told to do by fellow electricians as stated in a previous post.


Page 1 of 2 1 2

Member Spotlight
Bill Addiss
Bill Addiss
Posts: 3,878
Joined: October 2000
Show All Member Profiles 

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.017s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.8185 MB (Peak: 0.9911 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-05-23 20:44:45 UTC