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#85783 - 08/06/03 07:56 PM Orientation of Cord Cap - Up or Down?  
Joe Tedesco  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
I'm wondering if there should be a requirement for receptacles when the receptacle is for a cord connected appliance that has a ground plug like this one. Should the contractor be required to flip the receptacle to help insure protection of the cord?
[Linked Image]


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

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#85784 - 08/06/03 08:10 PM Re: Orientation of Cord Cap - Up or Down?  
GTE  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 48
Bridgehampton, N.Y. USA
Do you think a contractor installed this plug?


#85785 - 08/06/03 08:39 PM Re: Orientation of Cord Cap - Up or Down?  
resqcapt19  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
Joe,
If the appliance was there when I istalled the receptacle I'd flip it, but most times the electrican is long gone when the appliances arrive.
Don


Don(resqcapt19)

#85786 - 08/06/03 09:23 PM Re: Orientation of Cord Cap - Up or Down?  
txsparky  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 552
Magnolia,.Texas U.S.A.
I think the manufacturers should have to make all the cord caps the same. Then up, down,horizontal hot up, or horizontal hot down wouldn't be an issue anymore.


Donnie

#85787 - 08/06/03 09:30 PM Re: Orientation of Cord Cap - Up or Down?  
Joe Tedesco  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
This image was sent to me, and the note with it said, that this cord was supplying a soda machine in a NYS Greyhound bus station.

The receptacle looks like it has been in use for many years.

I don't know who installed this.

The least that should be considered is when the local fire marshall, or any other person sees this maybe a call to the electrical inspector would be the best way to get something like this fixed.

Whenever I mention some of the problems I discover during my travels, I get a dirty look, they say mind your own business, and why were you trespassing!


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

#85788 - 08/06/03 10:16 PM Re: Orientation of Cord Cap - Up or Down?  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,811
Brick, NJ USA
Joe:
How many electrical inspectors, and how many jurisdictions have the authority to require repairs???

I could and do leave a "courtesy" red sticker when I see a problem, but it's not a violation on what I was/am there to inspect.

If it appears to be a fire or life safety issue, I could call a Fire Inspector to issue a Notice to Repair that is legal and binding, and follows with a $$ fine if ignored.

John


John

#85789 - 08/06/03 10:45 PM Re: Orientation of Cord Cap - Up or Down?  
Joe Tedesco  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
John:

Calling this type of hazard to the owner, or person managing a business is in their best interest.

That's one of our duties as an AHJ. Leaving a "Red Tag" will often do the job, and a follow up by the Fire Inspector, or even a call to the insurance company, will surely get some action.

I have many of these types of pictures, and most of them are in this condition, or the receptacles are damaged.

The NEC does mention "Proper Maintenance" and in some areas existing situations that may need some revision, and if the rules of Article 80 were to be enforced, I believe there is a section that could be used.

When I was called to a site or business like a furniture store, where they often overloaded the circuits using Edision base glass green fuses, I was the AHJ that made them fix it immediately, or we would to shut them down.

The only problem is after the glass fuses were replaced with the Type S adapters, and properly sized fuses, the same thing happens again.

I discovered that they were cutting the steel piece of thin wire that is supposed to make removal difficult (unless you have the tool that looks like a very small can opener) to remove the adapter.

I still have that tool, and sometimes I used a short piece of a broom stick with a pointy end to remove the adapter, and this was when I found the wire cut.

Just another name in my black book as to who to watch!

I learned this from "mean Jimmy Meehan, Chief Electrical Inspector" when I was the Assistant Electrical Inspector in New Haven Connecticut back in 1966!

The electrical contractors used to sweat when he asked questions about their job before issuing a them a permit. I have fond memories of those days when I was a young fledgling inspector, and boy I thought I knew it all -- but learned as the years passed, that there will be a time when I too would be a senior, and that is what will happen to all of the younger Code Scholars that frequent this, and other places to enjoy this type of discussion, conversation, joking, arguing, and agreeing to disagree!



[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 08-06-2003).]


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

#85790 - 08/07/03 12:20 AM Re: Orientation of Cord Cap - Up or Down?  
wa2ise  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 782
Oradell NJ USA
Quote
Whenever I mention some of the problems I discover during my travels, I get a dirty look, they say mind your own business, and why were you trespassing!


For some reason this reminds me of a weekend trip to the jersey shore (Wildwood) where my friends and I were touring one of many boardwalk amusement parks. We were in a fun house, and I happen to notice some sparking wires dangling from a junction box on the ceiling. Occasional sparking. Problem was that there was no employee around that would take me seriously (all were high school kids) that I could report it to. After a while I forgot about it, as we were doing more rides and drinking more beers. A few weeks later I heard something on the news about a fire burning down one of these amusement parks (don't know if this was the one, I don't remember which one it was that had the bad wiring). This was back in the early eighties.

Odds are that these places have more violations than light bulbs, and they had lots of light bulbs.....


As for the Greyhound bus ststion outlet above, I see the bit of plastic between the ground pin and the cover plate was broken out.

As for the power cord, I've taken a ty wrap and loop the cord like an upside-down "J" and strap the cord to the body of the plug so it becomes a down dropper. That's probably not proper, but else you'd get the pictured problem. When you don't have the permission to mess with the outlet itself....


#85791 - 08/07/03 01:14 AM Re: Orientation of Cord Cap - Up or Down?  
Big Jim  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 394
Denver, CO USA
Is it maybe far past time for UL and the NEC to agree on the correct location of the ground pin. Can you imagine how boring all the forums would be with no discussions on which way to install the recepticle? The manufacturer's solution seems to be that all our replacement flat plugs are now comming with covers that can be installed in about a dozen different angles.


#85792 - 08/07/03 05:14 AM Re: Orientation of Cord Cap - Up or Down?  
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
I like the idea of the cord cap with a cover which can be installed either way round. It would surely be much quicker (and maybe less dangerous?) when the average non-electrician is confronted with a situation like this and see the chance to easily correct it.

By the way, this just isn't a problem in the U.K. All our caps are right-angle types with the cord emerging downward, and it's accepted that receptacles are mounted ground up, although there's nothing in our code to specify that. Just about everybody would consider any other orientation to be "wrong."


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