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#84878 - 05/14/03 07:12 PM disco question  
Eandrew  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 68
seattle, wa, usa
I have a disconnect which is located just on the inside of a an overhang.

According to nec, what is the minimum distance the disconect (without weatherproof enclosure) can be from the edge of the opening which is exposed to rain, etc. My jw said 6 feet. article 404 refers me to article 312, but i can't seem to find anything. -Erik


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#84879 - 05/14/03 08:26 PM Re: disco question  
DJF  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 17
The rating of the Disconnect will determine where it can be placed.
i.e.: Raintight, Watertight, Waterproof, Nema 1, Nema 3R, etc.

[This message has been edited by DJF (edited 05-14-2003).]


#84880 - 05/14/03 08:33 PM Re: disco question  
Eandrew  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 68
seattle, wa, usa
but lets say, in this instance you have a open garage where semi's can pull up to and pulg in their refrigeration units into a disconnect which is located just inside an overhang protecting it from rain. But if the wind blow, the disco could get drenched. Does the nec specify exact what outdoors is. What would you install in this location. If I have already purchased a nema 1 for this location, am I not in compliance with nec. Can I get away with the nema 1? Does the nec address this?


#84881 - 05/14/03 09:27 PM Re: disco question  
stamcon  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 329
So San Francisco CA
You answered your question. Rain might blow in and drench it. It's in a "wet location" and needs to be rated as such.


#84882 - 05/15/03 08:41 PM Re: disco question  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,311
Quote
Does the nec specify exact what outdoors is

Eandrew.....
Can't you just see the ad-hoc committees clamoring amongst themselves with meteorology reports?
[Linked Image]


#84883 - 05/18/03 02:39 PM Re: disco question  
Eandrew  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 68
seattle, wa, usa
exactly,

I mean there must be a point to which the disconnect can be taken inside from the edge of a garage door and be considered inside the building.

See , the boss does not want to buy an nema 3. The nema 1 has already been punched, nonreturnable.

I just said to ask the inspector, it an interpretation of the nec.

I just dont like it when somebody says. Oh, its code (in the nec) that the disco must be 6' in from the edge of the overhang. And in fact that does not even exist in the code. I like things black and white and if its not so, I identify it as such. Some electricians speak with such confidence when they are really full of it. -


#84884 - 05/18/03 04:58 PM Re: disco question  
WebSparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 138
Cleveland, Ohio
Eandrew
Quote
exactly,
I mean there must be a point to which the disconnect can be taken inside from the edge of a garage door and be considered inside the building.


NEC 312.1 Scope.
This article covers the installation and construction specifications of cabinets, cutout boxes, and meter socket enclosures.

I. Installation
312.2 Damp, Wet, or Hazardous (Classified) Locations.
(A) Damp and Wet Locations. In damp or wet locations, surface-type enclosures within the scope of this article shall be placed or equipped so as to prevent moisture or water from entering and accumulating within the cabinet or cutout box, and shall be mounted so there is at least 6 mm (1/4 in.) airspace between the enclosure and the wall or other supporting surface. Enclosures installed in wet locations shall be weatherproof.


Quote
See , the boss does not want to buy an nema 3. The nema 1 has already been punched, nonreturnable.


If money was avalid code term, your boss would have a leg to stand on! The code makes no references to costs of material. The code is based on the NFPA which is about Life Safety.

Quote

I just said to ask the inspector, it an interpretation of the nec. .


No interpretation is necessary!

Quote

I just dont like it when somebody says. Oh, its code (in the nec) that the disco must be 6' in from the edge of the overhang. And in fact that does not even exist in the code. I like things black and white and if its not so, I identify it as such. Some electricians speak with such confidence when they are really full of it. -


Here is the "black and white".
The code is clear. One must simply read it.
If you do not have a copy, you can buy one or borrow one from your library. Then you will not be dependent on "some electricians" like me and others that actually know the code.


Quote
NEC 2002 100 Definitions
Identified (as applied to equipment). Recognizable as suitable for the specific purpose, function, use, environment, application, and so forth, where described in a particular Code requirement.


Quote
NEC 2002 100 Definitions
Location, Damp. Locations protected from weather and not subject to saturation with water or other liquids but subject to moderate degrees of moisture. Examples of such locations include partially protected locations under canopies, marquees, roofed open porches, and like locations, and interior locations subject to moderate degrees of moisture, such as some basements, some barns, and some cold-storage warehouses.


From UL White Book
Quote

Enclosure Type Number Provides a Degree of Protection Against the Following Environmental Conditions*
1 Indoor use
2 Indoor use, limited amounts of falling water
3R Outdoor use, undamaged by the formation of ice on the enclosure**
3 Same as 3R plus windblown dust
3S Same as 3R plus windblown dust; external mechanisms remain operable while ice laden
4 Outdoor use, splashing water, windblown dust, hose-directed water, undamaged by the formation of ice on the enclosure**
4X Same as 4 plus resists corrosion
5 Indoor use to provide a degree of protection against settling airborne dust, falling dirt, and dripping noncorrosive liquids.


You will have to decide which enclosure type would be acceptable for your condition.

I hope this helps!
Dave


[This message has been edited by WebSparky (edited 05-18-2003).]

[This message has been edited by WebSparky (edited 05-18-2003).]


Dave

#84885 - 05/19/03 10:22 PM Re: disco question  
Eandrew  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 68
seattle, wa, usa
Well, I agree to some extent.

Maybe I came off a little cocky there.

However, I only disagree on your black and white stance. It's not so.

I think the nec gives a general definition. But the inspector really can expand or contract this. There is so many variables here and that is what inspectors are for. What if they only open the garage door two times a year or it only rains one week out of the year? Or what if you mount the disco 100 feet in from the garage door edge and the garage also has a heater in it? Do you still apply your hard and fast rules?

It is your job to test the humidity of the air- give me a break!

If you said , You need anitshort bushing on mc cable,. I'd say , no, just on ac cable, that is "black and white"

I think it is up to interpretation. But hey, I could be wrong.- thanks for your responses.


#84886 - 05/20/03 07:33 AM Re: disco question  
Redsy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
Is this indoors, adjacent to the garage door, or is it outdoor, under the overhang?
If it is indoor, it seems that Nema 1 is sufficient, if it is outdoor, overhang or not, 3R should be installed.



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