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next higher breaker #83999
02/25/03 01:51 PM
02/25/03 01:51 PM
dana1028  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 163
San Carlos, CA
(1999 NEC) 240-3(b) is the "next higher breaker" allowed code section.

My code book is full of margin notes from various code classes and I see a note here: 'for branch circuits, not feeders'.

?? - I don't remember not being allowed to use the next higher breaker for feeders (I'm thinking for sub-panels). Is there somewhere in the code that prohibits the 'next higher breaker' on feeders to sub-panels?

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: next higher breaker #84000
02/25/03 02:05 PM
02/25/03 02:05 PM
caselec  Offline
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 558
San Jose, CA
You are allowed to use the next higher standard overcurrent device rating for feeders but not for multioutlet branch circuits feeding cord and plug connected loads. 240.4(B)(1)


Curt Swartz
Re: next higher breaker #84001
02/25/03 02:30 PM
02/25/03 02:30 PM
Elzappr  Offline
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 270
In the 2002 code, art 240.4(C), when the overcurrent device is over 800A, then you have to use wire with allowable ampacity equal to or greater than the OC device rating. Maybe this is what your notes referred to...but this isn't likely something that applies to subpanels.

Re: next higher breaker #84002
02/25/03 03:02 PM
02/25/03 03:02 PM
wdelbusto  Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3
Caselec gave the correct answer, the question dana1028 asked refers to OC/brakers etc.. and never mentioned wire size.?


[This message has been edited by wdelbusto (edited 02-25-2003).]

Re: next higher breaker #84003
02/25/03 04:55 PM
02/25/03 04:55 PM
The Watt Doctor  Offline
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 435
Mont Belvieu, TX
The "general rule" (for lack of a better term) is that you "go up" on branch circuits, and "down" on feeders. Elzappr is correct in stating the "800 amp" rule. At 800 amps and above the ampacity of the wire has to match or exceed the OCP. Notice the NEC Handbook.
Table 210.24 summarizes the requirements for the size of conductors and the size of the overcurrent protection for branch circuits where two or more outlets are required. The first footnote also indicates that the wire sizes are for copper conductors. Section 210.3 indicates that branch-circuit conductors rated 15, 20, 30, 40, and 50 amperes must be protected at their ratings. Section 210.19(A) requires that branch-circuit conductors have an ampacity not less than the rating of the branch circuit and not less than the maximum load to be served. These specific requirements take precedence over 240.4(B), which applies generally.

Table 210.24 summarizes branch-circuit requirements of conductors, overcurrent protection, outlet devices, maximum load, and permissible load where two or more outlets are supplied.
If the branch circuit serves a fixture load and supplies two or more fixture outlets, 210.23 requires the branch circuit to have a specific ampere rating that is based on the rating of the overcurrent device, as stated in 210.3. Thus, if the circuit breaker that protects the branch circuit is rated 20 amperes, the conductors supplying this circuit must have an ampacity not less than 20 amperes.

Good Luck,

The Watt Doctor
Altura Cogen
Channelview, TX
Re: next higher breaker #84004
02/25/03 05:39 PM
02/25/03 05:39 PM
dana1028  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 163
San Carlos, CA
thanks all - your comments are how I have understood it for years...just that comment in the margins threw me...don't know how that got there.


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