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#83546 - 02/04/03 07:33 PM Violations found when beginning a renovation?  
Elec_VA  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 40
Sterling, VA, USA
Starting a renovation job at a car dealer in No. VA and looked around the electric room. Dear GOD! To start a small list:
110.12 ( a nice one that covers all crappy work), 110.22 (NO PANEL SCHEDULE AT ALL [Linked Image] AND THERE ARE THE MDP AND SIX SUB PANELS), 348.30 (A), 348.30(B), 314.28 (C), 314.23 (A), 410.12, 410.16 (C), 410.18 (A), 410.22, 410.28 (These last ones cover support, covers on boxes and luminaries, and general instillation of lighting), 250.146 (non-grounded receptacles with sensitive electronics plugged in), 250.53 (cover mount receptacle ground bonding jumper), 400.8 (uses not permitted for flexible cord), 358.26 (number of bends in an EMT run), 314.17 (openings to be closed), 110.26 (spaces about elec. equip.), 300.14, and 210.4 (D) (identification of ungrounded conductors). What a mess. The feeds to all the RTU's were done with unmarked red wire (#2, all, despite a feed for a 30A, 50A, and 90A RTU with no bond bushings despite concentric KO's), there was flex all over the ceiling, open boxes, etc.) Nasty stuff [Linked Image]

These guys are about a mile from the Pentagon! It’s a good thing it’s a different jurisdiction, or I would have serious worries about that building. Not good at all.

Horror stories?


Pete

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#83547 - 02/04/03 08:49 PM Re: Violations found when beginning a renovation?  
Scott35  Offline

Broom Pusher and
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,707
Anaheim, CA. USA
...And on Page # 252 of the Non-Compliancy Report / Correction Notice, .....

Get out the 3 ring binder used for job folder!

Good luck on this project!

Scott35 S.E.T.

btw: get some digital shots to post in the violations forum!


Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

#83548 - 02/04/03 09:14 PM Re: Violations found when beginning a renovation?  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,824
Brick, NJ USA
Elec-Va:
Hopefully your contract says something to the effect of "not responsible for any existing violations".

Have you spoken to the local AHJ?? You may want to have a conversation with him, if possible, to avoid any unpleasant surprises.

Welcome to ECN

John


John

#83549 - 02/04/03 09:17 PM Re: Violations found when beginning a renovation?  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,308
8:00 hours.....
asked by a local developer to attend renovation walkthru, emphasis on salvagable electrical system
9:00 hours......
completed walkthru, service entrance viewed, panels opened, JB inspected, devices inspected at random, fixtures viewed at random.....
9:15 hours...
forwarded verbal results.

'Dumpster time'


#83550 - 02/05/03 12:31 AM Re: Violations found when beginning a renovation?  
Elec_VA  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 40
Sterling, VA, USA
I have never wanted a digital camera more! My scanner stopped working a while ago but if I can get it going I expect a few shots on Friday, when I stop back on the job for a few hours.

I talked to the local "multi-hat" inspector for a good long while. There are mass amounts of lumber used as structural elements (despite the fact that wood is not allowed by local building code on commercial jobs), the bathrooms don't comply to any form of local/national building code, the prints call for us to double lug the RTU's and the Air Compressor for the service area of the dealership (can you say Change Order and violation!)

The engineer calls for us to use the existing RTU feed breaker from MDP to feed our new sub panels (hence the double lug and change order that we are about to do!). A big OOPS! Changes involve a re-feed of all existing RTU's from the new sub-panels and demo of all existing roof work. I guess the owner of my company will be happy because none of this stuff is in the bid and a simple service build out has turned into a pretty good upgrade (ticket work).

I wish I could dump this one off on someone else; It's not going to be a fun job. A lot of stuff too be done, to say the least.


Pete

#83551 - 02/05/03 10:40 AM Re: Violations found when beginning a renovation?  
nesparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 642
omaha,ne
This sounds like a good place for a walk thru with a digital camcorder with sound attachment. As you take your pictures or "roll you film" you make comments about what you see. You also note if that will be fixed as part of your work or not. Maybe the AHJ will want a copy.
I have found out the hard way that this can sure be a great money saver. Also if an argument starts over what is required and what is to be paid for, you have the preexisting conditions on record.


ed

#83552 - 02/06/03 07:29 AM Re: Violations found when beginning a renovation?  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,308
one could do backflips while chanting in toungues before the general public has any impression or sense of urgency.

put a high $$$ sign on it, and you'll be amazed at the attention you instantly gain.


#83553 - 02/06/03 12:15 PM Re: Violations found when beginning a renovation?  
sparky66wv  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
West Virginia
You guys act as if this isn't normal..

You're spoiled. Come work in southern WV for an eye-opener.

Case in point:

Quote from an inspector this week (a new one I hadn't used before):

"I saw your test-marks, but I tightened the lugs a little more anyway. Aluminum wires always loosen up..."

BTW, no worries at the Pentagon. It is in good hands.


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI

#83554 - 02/06/03 02:02 PM Re: Violations found when beginning a renovation?  
txsparky  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 552
Magnolia,.Texas U.S.A.
Quote
I saw your test-marks, but I tightened the lugs a little more anyway. Aluminum wires always loosen up..."


What a dumba$$!Didn't you have another inspector do the same thing awhile back.Go ahead and ask him to start terminating everything for you(Hey...It's free labor [Linked Image] )
Seriously though,if he chooses to tighten the lugs beyond the manufacturers torque requirements,then he should be held liable in the event of a failure at that connection.
Keep that digital camera handy during inspections and photograph him doing this.Post it here then give him the website address. [Linked Image] That would be fun!!

[This message has been edited by txsparky (edited 02-06-2003).]


Donnie

#83555 - 02/06/03 05:19 PM Re: Violations found when beginning a renovation?  
Bjarney  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,527
West-Southern Inner-Northeast ...
Quote
I saw your test-marks, but I tightened the lugs a little more anyway. Aluminum wires always loosen up...


If that happens again, do this. Carefully repeat the comment back to the inspector, and ask him to verify the statement for accuracy. Then ask, "Will you deny having said that—while under oath?" […should his incompetence possibly be litigated at a future time.]




[This message has been edited by Bjarney (edited 02-06-2003).]


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