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#82829 - 12/18/02 01:12 PM GFCI Protection  
Joe Tedesco  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
Quote
Dear Mr. Tedesco:

I don't know if you have the time to answer questions, but I am at the end of my rope.

GFCI protection: I am receiving conflicting information from the local electrical gurus -all knowledgeable folks.

Specifically: 1960 house has old two-wire fabric covered Romex (with no
ground). There is no ground at the metal receptacle boxes. The conflict is
this: (A) I am told by several sources that I can afford a degree of
protection, particularly in wet areas, by installing GFCI's in these
locations. (B) I am told by others that GFCI's are useless without wiring
them to a ground.

I certainly would like to take the less expensive alternative of putting in
GFCI everywhere, but not if it's useless.

If you can answer, thanks.

Don Gilbert
donski55@usa.net


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#82830 - 12/18/02 01:36 PM Re: GFCI Protection  
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,878
NY, USA
Don,

GFCIs will offer you some protection on 2 wire (ungrounded) circuits. They do not need a ground wire to operate and are a legitimate replacement for 2 prong receptacles as long as they are marked "No Equipment Ground" (NEC 406.3(D)(3)(b))

Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 12-18-2002).]


#82831 - 12/18/02 03:25 PM Re: GFCI Protection  
Joe Tedesco  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
Quote
All:

Thank you for your quick and informative reply. It verified what I thought I knew, and what my research had shown. (A) that it can be done. (B) That apparently many of the "gurus" are locked into only one way of doing things (in this case a complete, very expensive rewiring job).


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

#82832 - 12/18/02 06:57 PM Re: GFCI Protection  
SvenNYC  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,691
New York City
However a word of advice.

In the future, when you do get the funds, I think you should look into updating the wiring.

Just to avoid the risk of fire from frayed and decaying insulation.

Sometimes a simple task of changing a receptacle on old wiring turns into a nightmare when the insulation crumbles between your fingers! [Linked Image]



[This message has been edited by SvenNYC (edited 12-18-2002).]


#82833 - 12/18/02 10:16 PM Re: GFCI Protection  
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,878
NY, USA
Don,

Keep in mind that if a Ground is needed for something to function properly it obviously will not. I am told that some surge-protectors fall into this category. So, if you are trying to protect some electronic products on these circuits with surge protectors you had better make sure that they will work.

Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 12-18-2002).]


#82834 - 12/20/02 01:10 AM Re: GFCI Protection  
ElectricAL  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 597
Minneapolis, MN USA
250.114 (3) ,with the exception of listed double insulated equipment, results in the idea, "if an equipment's cord has a grounding blade in the plug, then a connection to the grounding electrode system must be supplied".

Even though the GFI, with no equipment ground, behaves as if it is grounded, the exposed-noncurrent-carrying metal parts of cord-and-plug-connected equipment likely to become energized shall be grounded.

Another caution pertains to the box volume required now verses 1960. A lot of the old wiring was done in boxes that are way to small for today. By replacing the old two-wire receptacle with a new GFI, one must calculate the box volume required based on today's NEC.

Al


Al Hildenbrand

#82835 - 12/22/02 02:15 AM Re: GFCI Protection  
ThinkGood  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,081
Milwaukee, WI
I don't think a GFCI would even fit into some of the old boxes [Linked Image]



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