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#81529 - 08/26/02 10:05 PM Kitchen?  
harold endean  Offline
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
A good friend of mine asked me a question and I didn't have an answer. What do you guys think? What defines a kitchen? The reason is that my friend was wiring a basement and the was going to be some cabinents,contertop and a sink. No big deal. It would be a wet bar. So far so good. Then came a small refrig. under the countertop. Next came a dishwasher. My friend called for inspection. Now the inspector failed him. Why? The inspector called this area a "kitchen". Therefore he needed 3 more outlets on the countertop. This way he could meet the 2'-4' rule. My friend said that there were no means of cooking. The AHJ said that you could add a microwave, therefore it is a kitchen. Any comments?


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#81530 - 08/27/02 07:36 AM Re: Kitchen?  
sparky  Offline
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,308

to add a little spice to your thread....

I have a 12V 'hot dish' in my van
[Linked Image]

#81531 - 08/27/02 08:19 PM Re: Kitchen?  
Electricmanscott  Offline
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
This is a good one. I recently wired a billiard room in a house. The room had counter,fridge, and sink. I treated it simply as a wet bar, which is exactly what it is. Passed inspection. I think the inspector is going a bit far here. There are many "What ifs" we see everyday.

#81532 - 08/27/02 09:14 PM Re: Kitchen?  
Gwz  Offline
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 197
I see that Indiana has added KITCHEN to Article 100.

Kitchen means an area used, or designated to be used, for the preparation of food.

Maybe two more words need to be added for clarity " or drink."

Or maybe change the word " food" to "nourishment".

#81533 - 08/27/02 09:30 PM Re: Kitchen?  
caselec  Offline
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 558
San Jose, CA
We have been wiring quite a few pool houses lately and they usually have a dishwasher, disposal, and microwave. The inspectors will not permit the installation of an oven or cooktop because they would consider it a second kitchen.

Curt Swartz

#81534 - 08/27/02 10:46 PM Re: Kitchen?  
harold endean  Offline
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
I think that the inspector is reading too much into this installation. I don't believe he should have called it a kitchen. It should have been called a wet bar. In our code book the definition of a "bathroom means that you need a basin and one or more of the following: a toilet, a tub,or a shower." Maybe a code change should read: The definition of a kitchen you need a stove/cooktop/range/oven and one or more of the following, a sink, a refrigerator, or a dishwasher. I want to send in a code change but I just have to think about how to write it.

#81535 - 08/28/02 12:28 AM Re: Kitchen?  
Joule-E  Offline
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 25
A location for the preperation of items for human (or animal) consumption by mouth. That would cover anything we eat or drink, or feed our dogs.

Then again, I drink from a hose outside now and then, so my back yard would be a kitchen...its got a BarBQue too.

#81536 - 08/28/02 01:54 AM Re: Kitchen?  
TE  Offline
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 36
Joule-E do we need mouth in the definition
I'd hate to think what they're doing to the food. Do we need a health dept inspection?

Straight from the dictionary- a room with cooking facilities. I don't buy your inspectors comment that you could add a stove. I could add a stove to my bedroom, a microwave in my closet.

House for sale: 7 kitchens/ 1 bath, could be easily converted to 8 kitchens. Great retirement home for a chef. Open house Saturday- free snacks in every room.

Webster's Dictionary
Main Entry: kitch·en
Pronunciation: 'ki-ch&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English kichene, from Old English cycene, from Late Latin coquina, from Latin coquere to cook
Date: before 12th century
1 : a place (as a room) with cooking facilities
2 : the personnel that prepares, cooks, and serves food

#81537 - 08/28/02 02:16 AM Re: Kitchen?  
TE  Offline
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 36
Additional comments
I am thinking out loud here.

If there is plentiful counter space in a situation like this. Would homeowner install
a plug strip to plug in his blender, toaster oven and 10 other appliances?

But, would he be running those all at the same time?

I guess that would depend on the margarita output of the blender.

I vote on the side of safety.. wire it to the kitchen requirement. A couple of outlets are cheap in retrospect. He can get a change order= more$$$. And it will enhance his future relationship with the inspector.

#81538 - 08/28/02 06:15 AM Re: Kitchen?  
Electricmanscott  Offline
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
TE by your own definition this is NOT a kitchen. I will say it again, we can not cover every "what if" when doing a job. And not everyone wants to pay for every possible thing that may or may not happen.

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