ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Potseal 11
Recent Posts
600 KW 120/208 3 Phase Y protection
by Yooperup. 07/21/17 09:27 AM
1913 American Electrician's Handbook
by gfretwell. 07/20/17 01:08 PM
Green House wiring
by ghost307. 07/20/17 09:10 AM
Permit Snafus...AHJs and Contractors Jump in
by HotLine1. 07/18/17 08:06 PM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
239,190 Are you busy
174,582 Re: Forum
167,018 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
2 registered members (Dapo, Trumpy), 36 guests, and 6 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#80818 - 05/30/02 03:18 AM Ground/Bond 100A service  
Lance1990  Offline
Junior Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7
Michigan
Would you pass this if you were an inspector?
I am going nuts reading the 99'nec, & 2000 Michigan Residential Code.
I have a new 100amp Siemens panel that says if used as service equipment, I can land the grounds on the nuetral bar in the (approved order?). But to make sure I pass inspection, should I put an equipment grounding bar and separate the grounds and nuetrals so the MBJ ties the nuetral and equipment grounds through the can? I can't think of any reason they should be separate because it is always going to be the first main...but I want to make sure I pass on this the first time.
[Linked Image]


2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#80819 - 05/30/02 06:08 AM Re: Ground/Bond 100A service  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,311
Lance1990;
The MBJ is where all Nuetrals, EGC's
( Equipment grounding conductors) must meet. The GEC ( Grounding Electrode Conductor) can be made to the nuetral anywhere from the weatherhead to the MBJ, but is usually dictated by the poco.

If the EGC bar where to be isolated from the nuetral in this situation, nothing would trip on a g-fault.

Think of electrickity as a circle....


#80820 - 05/30/02 07:24 AM Re: Ground/Bond 100A service  
Redsy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
Looks OK to me.


#80821 - 05/30/02 08:59 AM Re: Ground/Bond 100A service  
Lance1990  Offline
Junior Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7
Michigan
Sparky, thanks for reply...
I couldn't really tell if you were giving it the ok or not. You said that the MBJ is where the noodles and ECG's must meet, but all this MBJ would be doing is tying the nuetral bar to the can if I have all the ecg's landed on the split nuetral bar. I think it is a better electrical connection for fault, but maybe he won't pass it if the nuetrals and ecg's have to be tied together by the MBJ like you said. I'll cross my fingers..


#80822 - 05/30/02 10:22 AM Re: Ground/Bond 100A service  
caselec  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 558
San Jose, CA
Lance - Yes you can terminate your grounds and neutrals on the neutral bar in this panel. If your going to have quite a few circuits in this panel you might want to add a ground bar to terminate some of you equipment grounds on so you don't run out of holes but leave the two #6 on the neutral buss.


Curt Swartz

#80823 - 05/30/02 01:20 PM Re: Ground/Bond 100A service  
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,878
NY, USA
Lance,

Quote
Sparky, thanks for reply...
I couldn't really tell if you were giving it the ok or not


I wonder that same thing myself sometimes .. [Linked Image]

Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 05-30-2002).]


#80824 - 05/30/02 07:58 PM Re: Ground/Bond 100A service  
Bjarney  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,527
West-Southern Inner-Northeast ...
If the main service disconnect/overcurrent device is located in the panel in the sketch, I'd buy it.


#80825 - 06/08/02 10:27 AM Re: Ground/Bond 100A service  
ldbudden  Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1
Colorado Springs, CO USA
Just to be a bit of a nitpicker, the 2 connectors for the SE cable should be listed for use with SE cable, and you probably need 2 ground rods. Also it would eliminate a possible weak link in the GEC chain if you just put the water ground ahead of the meter (closer to where it comes in from the slab), then the plumbers in the future will not be as likely to disconnect, and more importantly ASSURE THAT THEY RECONNECT it, if working on it in the future .


#80826 - 06/08/02 01:11 PM Re: Ground/Bond 100A service  
Lance1990  Offline
Junior Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7
Michigan
[b]Thank you all for the input[b]
This house was built about 1940, and had no grounding whatsoever. It is all copper-clad. I was really expecting to have some breakers trip when I put in the new service, but none did. I should have taken a picture of the old 50amp service. I don't know if two rods are required here. The last time I did residential work was 1991. I am a little behind on code, and had I known this is being done, I would have put one in to make sure. I'm not too fond of the connection quality of the standard ground clamps to pipe & rod. I hope in the future there is exothermic welding(cadweld) required. Thinking along those lines....can we reduce the resistance to ground so much that we won't even notice if we lose the nuetral to the power company, and have a constant fault?


#80827 - 06/16/02 01:40 PM Re: Ground/Bond 100A service  
tdhorne  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 345
Maryland, USA
"Thank you all for the input
This house was built about 1940, and had no grounding whatsoever. It is all copper-clad. I was really expecting to have some breakers trip when I put in the new service, but none did. I should have taken a picture of the old 50amp service. I don't know if two rods are required here. The last time I did residential work was 1991. I am a little behind on code, and had I known this is being done, I would have put one in to make sure. I'm not too fond of the connection quality of the standard ground clamps to pipe & rod. I hope in the future there is exothermic welding (cadweld) required. Thinking along those lines....can we reduce the resistance to ground so much that we won't even notice if we lose the neutral to the power company, and have a constant fault?"

In some soil conditions, especially along salt water coast lines, this could happen. Keep in mind that the quality of the grounding at both the source and the load will effect the likelihood of this occurring. One place that this practice is done deliberately is in telegraphic fire alarm signaling. The grounding at each telegraphic transmitter is improved until you can successfully signal via ground return in the event of a break in one side of the circuit.


Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use" Thomas Alva Edison


Member Spotlight
Niko
Niko
Campbell, CA
Posts: 356
Joined: August 2006
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.016s Queries: 14 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8109 MB (Peak: 0.9842 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-07-22 00:41:49 UTC