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#80195 - 03/14/02 02:54 PM Kitchen Circuits  
AndrusT  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 22
When laying out your 2, 20 amp Kit circuits. I usually, hit the fridge, dining room, and nook recepticals, in no particular fashion. Then when I hit the GFCI protected counter plugs, I try to devide the number of GFCI plugs up evenly. (3 protected on 1 kit circuit, and 3 protected on other kit circuit)
Other guys I see will pick up the same, nook, dining and frig. But will devide the 2 circuits up evenly with all devices. So wehn they get to there GFCI protected plugs they will be uneven. 1 GFCI plug will be on a kit circuit and, maybe 5 will be on the other kit circuit.
Which way is correct?


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#80196 - 03/14/02 05:44 PM Re: Kitchen Circuits  
sparky66wv  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
West Virginia
2002 NEC 210.11(C)(1) says there must be at least two small appliance circuits, but does not suggest how they must be split.

2002 NEC 210.52 (B)& (C) don't offer much help either, only for their locations...

However, 210.11 (B) pretty much insists that branch circuit loads be as balanced as possible.

I've been in the habit of alternating them as much as possible, and I usually give three circuits for a kitchen, excluding range, and other dedicated stuff...

Given the two choices, your technique would be the most correct.


[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 03-14-2002).]


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#80197 - 03/14/02 06:56 PM Re: Kitchen Circuits  
Elzappr  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 270
Oregon
This brings a private "project" of mine to mind. Has anyone compiled a list of "things to do so that the electrical installation works well"?
This goes along with the general notion of maintaining a bit of professionalism, ethics, a bit of personal responsibility, in trade practice. It would be nice to have a laundry list of things every installer should try to do..but often don't..due to expediency concerns, cost, or lack of organization.
When the politicians come up with questions about licensing electricians, and about continuing education, the list can be brought up as a reminder that we have to maintain, and police ourselves, in our installation standards, and that licensing and continuing education helps foster such professionalism, such group norms. As educators, we must be mindful of how our apprentices need to come up to our self-policing standards..and not expect them to just learn it all on the job. They might just end up reinforcing the juvenile ways of "doing whatever I can get away with".


#80198 - 03/14/02 08:32 PM Re: Kitchen Circuits  
motor-T  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 280
Girard, Ohio, USA
AndrusT:
All residential wiring is based on demand especially the small appliance circuits. There is no limit as to how many Small Appliance circuits, if two is not enough you can add another, the recommended 2(two) circuits is minimun. Also the refirgerator can be put on its own circuit leaving the small appliance circuits by themselves, and dedicate them strictly for 'Small Appliances'.
For load calculations, of the general lighting, laundry and small appliances the first 3000 VA are taken at 100% and the remainder at 35%, all on demand.
-Mark-


#80199 - 03/14/02 10:00 PM Re: Kitchen Circuits  
AndrusT  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 22
Thanks for the good answers guys. I'm still a little unclear. On which is the best way?
It seems balancing the 2 kit circuits out evenly is the way to go? And it doesn't matter if one GFCI is protecting more plugs than the second GFCI?
(don't need a third circuit, nook & dine are only 2 plugs each)
You guys give great answers, and this is a great site, tnx again.



[This message has been edited by AndrusT (edited 03-14-2002).]


#80200 - 03/15/02 08:47 PM Re: Kitchen Circuits  
George  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 375
AndrusT --

There is no "best way."

The code does not require that the number of recepts be balanced. It requires that the load be balanced.

You can do the first as an electrictian.

Only the user can do the second.

My kitchen by chance has outlets on one wall on one circuit and those on the second wall on another circuit.

One of those walls serves a microwave, and tiny appliances. The other wall serves an electric fry pan and tiny appliances.

As I say this is by chance not by design. (Of course, if I had a lot of nusance CB trips I would relocate the appliances.)

Perhaps the "best way" is to provide a plan that will allow moving large loads from ciruit to ciruit to balance the load. This might be accomplished by interleving repects on different CBs.


#80201 - 03/24/02 10:31 PM Re: Kitchen Circuits  
NonLinearLoad  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 53
McHenry, IL. USA
AndrusT,
Don't mix and match your kitchen with other areas. The kitchen is self contained. It has to have the specified small appliance circuits, then we get into the additional items such as fridge,micro/stove(gas),lighting,220v goodies are of course seperate.
Now, we see dining outlets get a 20A cicuit.Our friendly eating area is required to get a 20A outlet circuit. And all the above mentioned circuits are not to be shared with any other areas, like the one little exterior GFI on the back deck right off the kitchen, so close to those other dedicated circuits. And our dining outlets are usually close to the front door exterior GFI. Makes for a lot of wire in usually a congested area.


#80202 - 04/17/02 08:39 PM Re: Kitchen Circuits  
Dude123084  Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 10
Mc Keesport, PA, USA
Here is how I remodeled my kitchen:
Fridge 15 Amp
Microwave 20 Amp
2 Circuits: 20 Amp, both are totally gfci protected. one wall has the 2 gfci's. the other has 2 duplexes from the gfci's. from there, there is a duplex by the sink. i broke the hot and neutral tabs off, and there are 2 circuits in that outlet. I always split an "odd" outlet. if i had to put a fridge on a kitchen circuit and not a dedicated one, i'd keep it off a gfci or put it on its own gfci on one of the circuits. i always try to keep the 2 kitchen circuits on the same hot leg, unless i can't because i have to keep all the circuits balanced.


#80203 - 04/18/02 05:46 PM Re: Kitchen Circuits  
AndrusT  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 22
We pick up the Dining room and nook area before hitting the kitchen GFCIs. We also are allowed to hit the Fridge, off a kitchen circuit.
It became much clearer with George's post ...
"The code does not require that the number of recepts be balanced. It requires that the load be balanced.

You can do the first as an electrictian.

Only the user can do the second"

And I know alot of people pull seperate HR for the fridge. Don't tell me, tell most of Michigan.
And Dude123084, you would never GFI protect a fridge.
And whats "i always try to keep the 2 kitchen circuits on the same hot leg, unless i can't because i have to keep all the circuits balanced." mean? Same hot leg? You must mean something else. 2 circuits having the same hot leg would be a double fed circuit. Only thing I can make out you meant was you try to keep the 2 circuits on the same 'phase' but ..heh.. no way ya meant that.



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