ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
AreMetal Ladders Ever OK For Electrical Work?
by HotLine1. 01/22/18 07:31 PM
Photocell
by twh. 01/22/18 05:06 PM
VDE 0100 to introduce AFCIs
by sparky. 01/20/18 05:09 PM
MRI LED lights dimmer control replacement - wow!
by Potseal. 01/19/18 08:52 PM
New in the Gallery:
Housebilding DIY wiring
SE cable question
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 22 guests, and 7 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Grounding to water pipe #80011
02/13/02 10:31 PM
02/13/02 10:31 PM
B
beach  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 22
A licensed electrical contractor I work with says running a ground wire from a recpt to a water pipe bonding with a copper strap is an approved method for obtaining a ground from a 2 wire system. Example: knob and tube wiring, he ran a #12 wire from the recpt to a water pipe (3/4 galv) to acheive a ground. I argued with him since it was my belief this was not an approved method.

Please shed some light please. I have a 2002 NEC. Please reference some code so I can better understand, also a suggested approved method if his is not.

The local is Sacramento, CA In city limits.

Thank you
Jon

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Grounding to water pipe #80012
02/13/02 10:39 PM
02/13/02 10:39 PM
R
resqcapt19  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
Jon,
Look at 250.130(C)
Don(rescqpt19)


Don(resqcapt19)
Re: Grounding to water pipe #80013
02/13/02 11:03 PM
02/13/02 11:03 PM
B
beach  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 22
In reading it is my understanding that his connection is only permitted if within 5 ft of the pipe entrance since it is not a commercial or indusrtial but rather a residential building.

IS THIS CORRECT?

Jon

Re: Grounding to water pipe #80014
02/14/02 05:37 AM
02/14/02 05:37 AM
S
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,344
beach,
first you must consider if said conductor is a 'Bond" or a 'Grounding Electrode Conductor' (or GEC). The 5' rule would apply to the latter.

Re: Grounding to water pipe #80015
02/14/02 07:34 AM
02/14/02 07:34 AM
E
Electricmanscott  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
Jon, I believe you are correct, you must run the ground to within 5 feet of water line point of entry, or you could run it into the panels ground bar. This or may not be accepted where you are. Here in Mass we are not allowed to do this. They have deleted 250.130(C)

Re: Grounding to water pipe #80016
02/14/02 05:45 PM
02/14/02 05:45 PM
D
dana1028  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 163
San Carlos, CA
Beach - you are in Calif. - the NEC 1996 is the state adopted code (not '99 or 2002) -...so

250-50(b)Excetion - says "shall be permitted to be grounded to any accessible point on the GES as described in 250-81, or to any accessible point on the GEC."...going to 250-81....
250-81(a) - Metal underground water pipe - there is no requirement for attaching within 5' of entry into the bldg....(unless I missed somthing but I don't think I did) ....so - your elect. contractor wired this correctly....until Calif. finally gets around to adopting the 1999.

Re: Grounding to water pipe #80017
02/14/02 06:44 PM
02/14/02 06:44 PM
E
Electricmanscott  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
Wow I can not beleive there are states out there that do not keep up with current code. Anyone still using the knob and tube out there?

Re: Grounding to water pipe #80018
02/15/02 12:27 AM
02/15/02 12:27 AM
B
beach  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 22
Knob and tube? Of course....Why? Have you heard of something better?

Re: Grounding to water pipe #80019
02/15/02 12:39 AM
02/15/02 12:39 AM
D
dlabrenz  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 25
Muskegon, MI
The 5 foot rule for the water pipe connection first appeared in the 1993 NEC. If the grounding connection was not made within the first five feet from the point where the water service enters the building, it would not appear to be done correctly.

Re: Grounding to water pipe #80020
02/15/02 08:09 AM
02/15/02 08:09 AM
R
Redsy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
Knob and tube is still an acceptable wiring method as an extension to existing k&t.
Not that I would choose to do so.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
Attic Rat
Attic Rat
Bergen Co.,N.J. USA
Posts: 524
Joined: December 2003
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 20
sparky 15
Potseal 12
Popular Topics(Views)
243,606 Are you busy
180,418 Re: Forum
170,875 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.574s Queries: 15 (0.558s) Memory: 1.0212 MB (Peak: 1.1947 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-01-24 05:58:43 UTC