ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Potseal 11
Recent Posts
Electrode boilers question
by annemarie1. 04/27/17 01:40 PM
Why cables look like they do
by LongRunner. 04/26/17 09:36 AM
Dimmable LED 2x4 lay in fixtures
by HotLine1. 04/24/17 05:43 PM
Old decora style outlets
by Lostazhell. 04/22/17 07:59 PM
Permit Snafus...AHJs and Contractors Jump in
by gfretwell. 04/22/17 01:11 PM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
234,863 Are you busy
169,656 Re: Forum
162,898 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 46 guests, and 12 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#79998 - 02/13/02 12:34 AM bonding ground  
beach  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 22
A friend of mine is adding on to his house. He relocated his main and installed a ufer. Currently he is not bonded to his water pipes and AHJ has not said anything.
What kind of bond should he run and from where. At the ufer connection or from the busbar. To add to this, his water main comes up in galv 2 feet to a shutoff valve then to a dielectric union then to copper. Should he bond to both the galv and copper. This is an older house and I know much of his recp are bonded to the water pipes.


2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#79999 - 02/13/02 06:47 AM Re: bonding ground  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,306
beach,
IMO, a UFER correctly done, is superior to a municipal H2O pipe, and much less a potential nuetral.
However, the NEC would like the H2O pipe ( mettalic) used as a GEC, so i would size to 250.66, run it over , connect to the CU side & leave a tail long enough to connect to the galvy side if required.
hint, get yer amprobe ready when ya do....
[Linked Image]


#80000 - 02/13/02 08:18 AM Re: bonding ground  
Redsy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
I'd go from the service panel to the UFER with a properly sized GEC. Then go from the UFER to the water line on the supply side of the valve, and to the copper side of the di-electric union.


#80001 - 02/13/02 08:45 AM Re: bonding ground  
Electricmanscott  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
Maybe its me....but what the heck is a ufer? Is this what the kids used to call refer?Anyway I would run my grounding electrode conductor to the water pipe and attach to the galvi and then to the copper just for a little extra security. Is the there a water meter there? I would also run a #6 cu to a ground rod to suplememnt the main water pipe ground. These would both originate at the service entrance panel or disconnect.


#80002 - 02/13/02 09:19 AM Re: bonding ground  
beach  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 22
What does "ufer" stand for anyway.
Thank you for your responses.

Jon


#80003 - 02/13/02 11:48 AM Re: bonding ground  
safari  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 11
Newport, Oregon, USA
250.50 requires all systems in 250.52.A.(1-6) to be used if available,it appears that you have 250.52.A.3 as you have a "EUFER" (the name of the engineer who spent many years studying grounding and grounding systems)as for 250.52.A.1 it only applys if you can show that there exists more than 10' of metal in the ground not just a galvanized riser on underground plastic pipe.
In addition section 250.104 requires Bonding.
250.104.A would require the interior water piping to be bonded, and 250.104.B would require any other metal piping systems to be bonded.


#80004 - 02/13/02 12:03 PM Re: bonding ground  
sparky66wv  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
West Virginia
A Ufer is specifically a concrete-encased electrode... Almost as elaborate as an equipotential plane... (Actually, they look like the same thing to me)

Herbert G. Ufer was the inventor's name.

Go here:
http://www.scott-inc.com/html/ufer.htm


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI

#80005 - 02/13/02 07:54 PM Re: bonding ground  
dana1028  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 163
San Carlos, CA
Beach - for simplicity (Ufer) - it is a piece of rebar bent upwards (i.e. coming out of the poured concrete footing/foundation) - this piece of rebar is usually placed pretty close to your main panel so it is easy to bond the panel to (using a #4 copper conductor)...see 250-66(b)- "Concrete Encased Electrodes" is referring to a Ufer (as above named after the inventor of this system)....do check out the link above as it gives some good history behind this system.


#80006 - 02/13/02 08:50 PM Re: bonding ground  
resqcapt19  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
Sparky
Quote
IMO, a UFER correctly done, is superior to a municipal H2O pipe...


If the Ufer is superior to a metal underground water piping system for use as a grounding electrode, why does the code require a full sized (per Table 250-66) grounding electrode conductor to the water pipe and only a #4 to the Ufer?
Don(resqcapt19)


Don(resqcapt19)

#80007 - 02/13/02 08:53 PM Re: bonding ground  
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,878
NY, USA
beach,

When you say that most receptacles are bonded to the water pipe does that mean there is no ground wire in the branch circuit wiring to the receptacles? Did someone replace 2 prong outlets with 3 prong along the way and run separate grounding conductors to the waterpipe?

Bill


Page 1 of 2 1 2

Member Spotlight
HotLine1
HotLine1
Brick, NJ USA
Posts: 6,809
Joined: April 2002
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.017s Queries: 15 (0.002s) Memory: 0.8176 MB (Peak: 0.9905 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-04-28 10:20:11 UTC