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#77192 - 05/10/01 06:43 PM Does Equipment have to be Tested for Safety?  
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,878
NY, USA
Quote
From: "Courtland" <cthomas@patton.com>


I work for an ITE company. Is there a requirement that all equipment be listed (tested for Safety)? Typically, any unit that has an internal power supply, we have tested, however that's not the case for external supply's that already have certain approvals.


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#77193 - 05/10/01 08:18 PM Re: Does Equipment have to be Tested for Safety?  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,311
http://www.osha-slc.gov/dts/otpac/nrtl/index.html

These are the NRTL's, is that what you are asking for???

[Linked Image]


#77194 - 05/10/01 09:04 PM Re: Does Equipment have to be Tested for Safety?  
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,878
NY, USA
I'm not sure what the question is referring to either, but We, (Electricians) as per the NEC are to only install equipment that is listed or labelled by a recognized lab. If it is made up of a series of individual components (each listed), such as a Hot Tub complete with Pump, blower, heater etc. it would have to be listed again as a 'Package' unit. Hope this is what you mean.

[Linked Image]
Bill


#77195 - 05/10/01 09:06 PM Re: Does Equipment have to be Tested for Safety?  
sparky  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,311
2nd that Bill & add;
OSHA is the entity that acknowledges the NRTL's


#77196 - 05/10/01 09:23 PM Re: Does Equipment have to be Tested for Safety?  
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,878
NY, USA
Sparky,

Do you know if things must be tested?
I see Electrical items in stores that have no UL or other markings. I suspect that they do not absolutely have to be tested and listed, but it will help sales. That may be the point of the question.

Bill


#77197 - 05/11/01 02:27 AM Re: Does Equipment have to be Tested for Safety?  
Phil H  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 21
Tujunga, CA
Bill & Sparky,

Boy, I read the question differently. When I first read it, I assumed Courtland was referring to quality control testing by a manufacture or if listed components are used in a listed assembly do the components need to be tested and/or listed again for the assembly.

I work for a company that manufactures small quantities of UL listed products, and assembles ETL control panels. We test and/or inspect each individual item but I do not know what the listing requires. Now I am curious and need to ask one of the engineers at work what is required.

By the way, I am not an electrician; I work mostly on the mechanical ends of things. I work with pumps and electrically actuated and controlled devices. Thus, I have a keen interest in electrical and enjoy learning more about it from this site.

Phil H


#77198 - 05/11/01 06:24 AM Re: Does Equipment have to be Tested for Safety?  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,311
hmmmm,
one would think that liability alone would drive any given manufacturer to have their goods tested , however it may not necessarily be a law to have to do this??

Is there a lawyer in the house?

[Linked Image]


#77199 - 05/11/01 07:46 AM Re: Does Equipment have to be Tested for Safety?  
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,878
NY, USA
Phil,

Thanks, Let us know what you find out.

Sparky,

Quote
one would think that liability alone would drive any given manufacturer to have their goods tested , however it may not necessarily be a law to have to do this??


I think that is the case. You also have to remember that there is a large amount of imported products sold in the US that may or may not have been tested by a NRTL.

I chose Hot Tubs for my example because of personal experience with them. A number of years ago there was a number of Hot Tubs being sold that were made up of all UL or CL listed components but never tested and listed as an assembly or 'Package Unit' by a NRTL. I assume this was because sales were down and to cut corners and make sales they decided to forgo this 'extra' expense. As a result of not being listed the installations (hardwired) would not pass inspection. I even turned away some work because of it. They came without cords so they couldn't even be plugged in for 120v operation.

I remember going at it on the phone with the Manufacturer several times over his sale of non-listed equipment to a consumer. The standard answer was "of course We use UL listed parts go look at them" The consumer is often fooled by this statement. It is definately not the same thing as it being tested after assembly and listed as such. [Linked Image]

Bill



[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 05-11-2001).]


#77200 - 05/11/01 04:48 PM Re: Does Equipment have to be Tested for Safety?  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,311
don't that beat all!
[Linked Image]
threads like these sure have me reading all that literature @ lunch these days....

ya can't be too careful!


#77201 - 05/11/01 07:39 PM Re: Does Equipment have to be Tested for Safety?  
Tom  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,044
Shinnston, WV USA
To answer the topic " Does electrical equipment have to be inspected for safety" my answer is "NO."

It is up to each inspector to "approve" equipment. 99.99999...% of inspectors rely on the NRTL label/listing for guidance to make that approval. But as far as I can tell, there is no requiement for testing/inspection. If an inspector had infinite resources, he could mandate equipment standards & there isn't much you could do about it.

There are areas where there is no standard & my example is wood supports. When I inspect a pole mounted mobile home service, if it is mounted to wood that is not pressure treated, I turn down the installation because I know that eventually, the wood will rot out & the equipment will be hanging by its wires. (durability.. 110-3(a)(2))

As Bill pointed out, just because there are a bunch of listed components, it doesn't mean that the entire assembly is listed.

I encourage everyone to purchase a copy of the UL White Book (aka "General Information for Electrical Equipment"). The information provided is well worth the money you will pay. The book will give you a better understanding of what "listing" and all the marks mean. If you are an inspector, the book can be obtained for free.

I've probably wandered a bit from the topic, but I couldn't help myself.

[This message has been edited by Tom (edited 05-11-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Tom (edited 05-11-2001).]


Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.


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