ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
AreMetal Ladders Ever OK For Electrical Work?
by HotLine1. 01/22/18 07:31 PM
Photocell
by twh. 01/22/18 05:06 PM
VDE 0100 to introduce AFCIs
by sparky. 01/20/18 05:09 PM
MRI LED lights dimmer control replacement - wow!
by Potseal. 01/19/18 08:52 PM
New in the Gallery:
Housebilding DIY wiring
SE cable question
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 22 guests, and 7 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
230-79 (b) #77034
04/14/01 03:07 PM
04/14/01 03:07 PM
D
Don'tKnowEverythingYet  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 22
Lakewood CA USA
This is the closest I got to finding the section that requires a sub panel in detached garages when there are more than two 20a circuits. (or is it one 20a circuit?)
I've heard about this requirement but can't find it in the '99 code. Does anybody know what section this would be in or is it just a California thing?

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: 230-79 (b) #77035
04/14/01 06:36 PM
04/14/01 06:36 PM
Tom  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,044
Shinnston, WV USA
I don't believe that the NEC comes right out & states that a sub-panel is required. I also don't believe that the circuits are limited to 20 amps. You are limited to one circuit and it can be a multiwire circuit. 225-30

A disconnecting means is required (225-31) and it must be suitable for use as service entrance equipment 225-36, but there is an exception (of course) that applies to garages & outbuildings on residential property.

By applying all of the above & 225-33(b), you eventually come to the conclusion that a single multiwire circuit (could be 3 hots, I'm sure there are some individual houses that are served with 3 phase) is all that is allowed without going to a panel that would comply with 225-36.

I'm sure I've left something out, but for the life of me, can't figure out what it is. I'm sure others will jump in & cover any of my deficiencies.

Tom


Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.
Re: 230-79 (b) #77036
04/18/01 03:48 PM
04/18/01 03:48 PM
W
wayne  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 54
NC
Your right Tom .
NEC does not come out and state the requirment. They kinda lead us into space sometimes.

As in most cases if there are more than two or three, 3wire circuits then a sub is usually installed.

For garage purpose's usually a multibranch circuit would cary what is needed it the garage.
Its a Cal thing,

Wayne [Linked Image]

Re: 230-79 (b) #77037
04/18/01 06:26 PM
04/18/01 06:26 PM
S
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,344
this is the famous "what if" Q....
it goes in a repititous code loop, and usually ends up in a sub-panel.

[Linked Image]

Re: 230-79 (b) #77038
04/18/01 07:58 PM
04/18/01 07:58 PM
G
Glenn  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 75
Doesn't 215-2 also cover the feeder to the detached garage?
I do not see anything in 215-1 to limit 215 to the dwelling only.

How do you split up the loads without a sub panel ?

Glenn

Re: 230-79 (b) #77039
04/18/01 08:59 PM
04/18/01 08:59 PM
S
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,344
Glenn;
good post.
that would be a feeder, let's play with branch circuits just for fun!

Let's run 4 UF 12-2's
Let's terminate in a large metal switch box with 4 -20A single poles ( 230-80)
Then lets run a GEC from the box down to a few G-rods (250-32)

Now don't flame me thinking that I go around doing this sort of installation. It's rather that i go around having to deal with messes like this !


Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
Attic Rat
Attic Rat
Bergen Co.,N.J. USA
Posts: 524
Joined: December 2003
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 20
sparky 15
Potseal 12
Popular Topics(Views)
243,606 Are you busy
180,418 Re: Forum
170,875 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.018s Queries: 14 (0.004s) Memory: 0.9753 MB (Peak: 1.1217 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-01-24 05:58:30 UTC