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#51911 - 05/15/05 11:13 PM California certification question  
RickMand  Offline
Junior Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1
Los Angeles, Ca
At the exam, do they provide you with the 99 nec book, or can you bring your own copy?

If so, any problem with it being a looseleaf style, with important sections "tagged" ?



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#51912 - 05/16/05 12:04 AM Re: California certification question  
dmattox  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 265
Anaheim, CA
They provide you with a copy of the code.

You have 4 hours to answer 100 questions, so finding the answers shouldn't be a problem.

Tip for us nonunion folks, find a copy of a union test (journeyman's exam?), the state exam seems like it was derived from it.

#51913 - 05/16/05 10:45 PM Re: California certification question  
Peter  Offline
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 92
San Diego
They provide you with a pencil, a sheet of paper and a marked up copy of the Code. The test is done on a computer so you must know how to use a mouse. Duh. You can bring your own, non-programable calculator. They take away all your pens and stuff like that.

One neat thing is the "Mark" button. Rather than struggle with a question, hit the mark button and go on to the next. You need 70% to pass. So if your number of "marks" [or uncertainties] is less than 30, maybe 35, you are certain to pass. After you've looked at all 100 questions, then go back to each marked question and look it up in the book. Use the index and the table of contents. Where would you find the required length of a garbage disposal cord?
Also know some electrical theory like the calculations for resistors.
Or just say "No hablo Inglis" and get exempt.

#51914 - 07/06/05 02:45 AM Re: California certification question  
Ray97502  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 55
Central Point,OR
Be thankful you are in CA, I am applying to the state of OR for a license.
First they said the needed to prove 16,000 journeyman hours of experience, because I'm from another state. Did that. Then they said 24,000 because I didn't show any apprentice (567 hrs of classroom instruction) training. Sent an additional 8k hrs. They replied that I needed to show 16,000hrs as equivalent apprentice hours (Res, Comm, Ind, shop hours, fixtures, finish work, etc.) Sent in that and the guy says that because he doesn't like the verifiers name "Mr. Ocean" (it's legal and he really works in Local 302) the hours wouldn't count...and (any hours that are not on the state verification form and notarized are unacceptable), of 9 individual documents each from a different person or source (2 IBEW LOCALS and a University) documenting journeymen experience totaling 25,000 hrs the one person in the whole state whose shoulders the decision rest upon tells me, (although I've been working in the trade since 1980 and hold a Journeyman I. W. ticket since 99), that I am not qualified to sit for the test.

It’s a kangaroo court. All this isn’t for the license, it’s to sit for a test. No one ever called any of the people supplying the information or provided any assistance to discuss the reasons that the documents were being rejected.

The whole process has taken more than 6 months ( supply docs and six weeks later they change the tune…get more docs and six more weeks and then get another letter changing the game again, and so on). Only to finally be sent a formal letter of denial saying that I have 60 days to apply to an appeals board that will meet in another 60 days. Or I can re apply with all new documentation…non of the previous docs are applicable…be glad you are applying in CA

[This message has been edited by Ray97502 (edited 07-06-2005).]

[This message has been edited by Ray97502 (edited 07-06-2005).]

#51915 - 07/07/05 09:09 PM Re: California certification question  
e57  Offline
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
Funny, its what they originally wanted to do here in CA, model it after OR. For the certification to allow you to work.... It's not a contractors license, (which it sounds you're going for) in CA thats easy, they want you to have a license, as opposed to being some underground hack. (who would not be paying taxes...)

Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

#51916 - 07/07/05 10:12 PM Re: California certification question  
SolarPowered  Offline
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 625
Palo Alto, CA, USA
16,000 hours?!! 24,000 hours??!!!!

For a reality check, 2,000 flight hours gets you an Airline Transport Pilot ticket, 8 years (~= 16,000 hours at 40 hours a week) gets you a PhD, and 24,000 hours is probably more than it takes to get a license to practice medicine (i.e., undergrad plus M.D. plus all the internships and residency).

I think they've been smoking entirely too much of their local agricultural products. [Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by SolarPowered (edited 07-07-2005).]

#51917 - 07/08/05 10:15 PM Re: California certification question  
e57  Offline
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876

Take a stroll through the maze of many varied licenses available in Oregon .

In a total twist of irony, I just found out that someone I know is moving up there, and will need work. Ray97502, other that certification pergatory, hows the job market up there?

Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

#51918 - 07/14/05 02:03 PM Re: California certification question  
Ray97502  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 55
Central Point,OR
Work in the Medford area is good right now, there is a lot of comm and res work.
Be aware that the cost of housing is not much different than the pricing in the Bay Area. Residential property value jumped about 40% in 2 years ($111/sqft to $190)
If you plan to come up here and have not completed a formal apprentice program, be aware that you need to use the state verification forms to submit your (notarized) proof of experience, it seems that they can't understand anything else. The hours worked for any single year cannot exceed 2000. If your hours for a company or a foreman (supervisor) were not continuous then they need to be specific and indicate the breaks, if periods of employment between one verifier and another verifier overlap they will reject your application. (if you work at job A and the leave for job B, then go back to job A again make sure it’s clear). If there is any flaw in the arithmetic, they will reject the application.
On the other hand, one person I met has had a CA contractor’s lic for 15 yrs got approval with no problem, and according to him, never showed any apprentice exp. He said just submitted letters from GC’s he worked with in CA.
I contacted the people that provided the documents that I submitted to the state and it seems that none of them were contacted.
While this does not mean that the state does not check when it decides to approve an application it does mean that they don't check when they decide to disapprove an app. But it might be that they don't really verify any of the information provided, which would mean that if you read OAR's (Oregon administrative rules) 918-282-0170 and have anyone you know fill out the verification form provided in the application so that it had a total of 24,000hrs of experience (real or not) the state might just let you take a supervisors exam. And when you pass, not so easy, and you get your Supervisors License you could take the Inspectors exam and be qualified to inspect (there are no additional requirements to sit for the Inspectors exam other than having a Supervisor’s License.) All this might be possible whether you were ever an electrician or not.
If someone knows a Notary that would be willing to be a bit dubious for the sake of a practical joke, it would be fun to see if you could get your dog approved to sit for a license exam.
By the strictest interpretation of Oregon laws ORS 497 and OAR 918, the requirements for a person who has not been in a formal apprentice program and is from out of state to apply for a General Supervising lic. are 24,000hrs total with 16,000hr verified apprentice experience, but by that same strict interpretation, only persons of the age of 17 can apply to the apprentice program and only those of the age of 18 can be indentured as an apprentice. If you are younger you can’t apply and by strict interpretation of the wording of the rule, if you are older you cannot apply.
This is a reprint of OAR 918-282-270

(1) An apprentice:
(a) Shall meet the following minimum requirements:
(A) General journeyman, limited residential, Class A limited energy technician and Class B limited energy technician:
(i) Be 17 years of age to apply, 18 years of age to indenture;
(ii) Have a high school diploma, GED, or international equivalency; and
(iii) Have one-year high school algebra, integrated math 2 or its equivalent, with a grade of "C" or better, or equivalent community college mathematics placement test results.

I need to be clear though, I respect the need to insure that only qualified people are allowed to hold a license and to require years of practice at one level before allowing advancement to a higher level. I believe that the intention of the state of Oregon is to accomplish that challenging goal. While I believe this whole heartedly I also believe that in the attempt to implement the plan, that the baby is lost somewhere in the bathwater.
Lastly, if the people evaluating the information I provided had done ANYTHING to verify that information other than a prima-facie inspection of the numbers on the paper I would not be grinding this ax with such zeal.
I don’t expect that I will ever be able to obtain any license in OR, especially since I have posted my grievance here, I do expect that Board and the fellow who makes the evaluations for he Supervisors lic reads or knows some one who reads this forum and will remember my name every time I apply or appeal. But then it doesn’t look like I would have stood a fair chance (without lying) anyway.

#51919 - 07/14/05 10:22 PM Re: California certification question  
e57  Offline
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
Wow, thanks! I'm gonna passs this information along. Man... It sounds like you need a license to change light bulbs up there. In princaple I can agree that being properley trained, and experianced is one thing. But I can see where this can be exclusionary, as it is a "license to work" in your chosen proffession, not just a license to contract in it, just to work. Like Solar mentioned, you might be able to practice medicine with less hassle.

Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

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