ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Potseal 11
Recent Posts
1913 American Electrician's Handbook
by gfretwell. 07/20/17 01:08 PM
600 KW 120/208 3 Phase Y protection
by gfretwell. 07/20/17 01:02 PM
Green House wiring
by ghost307. 07/20/17 09:10 AM
Permit Snafus...AHJs and Contractors Jump in
by HotLine1. 07/18/17 08:06 PM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
239,168 Are you busy
174,557 Re: Forum
166,993 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 42 guests, and 12 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#49971 - 03/21/05 09:29 PM Approved plans Vs. Minimum NEC  
mj  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 186
meriidian, ms
If a set of plans as been reviewed and approved by the (AHJ), and most items on the plans exceeds the mimimun requirements of the NEC. for example the plans shows a 1200 amp service..but from your load calculations an 800 amp service will work,...the plan shows a #2/0 grounding electrode conductor(exothermic welded to ground rods,...but you decide to use a #6 and use mechanical connections .The inspector turns to job down because "the work was not done according to the approved plans" Question : is it the inspector duty to only enforce the NEC minimum requirments, and not beyoung that ?


Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#49972 - 03/21/05 09:35 PM Re: Approved plans Vs. Minimum NEC  
stamcon  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 329
So San Francisco CA
As far as I'm aware of, plans are legal documents that are filed with the county and define the construction of a building. The building needs to be built according to the plans. Amended plans would need to be filed so show differences in the construction. The AHJ should only be accepting what's on the plans.

steve


#49973 - 03/21/05 09:46 PM Re: Approved plans Vs. Minimum NEC  
Roger  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,716
N.C.
I may be wrong, but IMO plan reviews are for code compliance and should not have any bearing beyond code compliance in the finished product.

At any given time during a project the owner may decide to consider some "Value Engineering" and if this altered the drawings to an extent without compromising "code compliance" why would the AHJ have the power to force this owner to buy a Cadillac when after second thought an Impala would suffice?

If this inspector is so concerned with "Contract Document compliance" he/she should go to work for the Architect or Engineer that is doing the design and writing the specs.

Roger



[This message has been edited by Roger (edited 03-21-2005).]


#49974 - 03/21/05 09:59 PM Re: Approved plans Vs. Minimum NEC  
mj  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 186
meriidian, ms
Thanks for your reply Stamcom, as an Inspector, when a set of plans are approved,the work should be done according to the plans,..any changes must be in writting from the Designer/Engineer. if any problems that may occur in a wiring system if we allow changes without consent from the designer, then the AHJ will be at fault.Most good designer exceed the minimum NEC requirements, however some electrical contractors will cut corners to make a profit by trying to wire to the mimimun code.


#49975 - 03/21/05 10:24 PM Re: Approved plans Vs. Minimum NEC  
Roger  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,716
N.C.
Mj, your concerns would be covered by the owners representatives, i.e. A/E.

The punch lists and close out documentation would guarantee design compliance, the contractors final payment and retainage would be held until all close outs were satisfied.

An AHJ is treading on thin ice as far as demanding item for item installation beyond code and holding up a C.O.

If there are added items, the AHJ has every right to ask for new drawings to review, if there are deletions, the AHJ would also have the right to ask for "record drawings" but not to turn down a job.

BTW, this is only MO.

Roger


#49976 - 03/21/05 11:13 PM Re: Approved plans Vs. Minimum NEC  
e57  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
S.F.,CA USA
Funny when most of our EE plans go to the city planning dept., we usually have a lot of red pen additions to cover. Mo'money!

But on the job, they ask for the approved set as refferance to scope, and as-builds for FLS. Not often will they get into enginnerring except to check AIC, or load calc's or something like that.

Outside of the Inspector and the City, it is simple contract compliance to perform the bid set. (UON)


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

#49977 - 03/22/05 12:18 AM Re: Approved plans Vs. Minimum NEC  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,099
Estero,Fl,usa
I think the argument you will get from most building departments is if that was what was submitted and plan reviewed that is what you build. Their inspectors have enough to do without trying to second guess why something is what it is on the plan.
It is certainly up to the inspector what he will ignore if it has his bosses signature and stamp on it but he may be proceeding at his own peril.


Greg Fretwell

#49978 - 03/22/05 01:41 AM Re: Approved plans Vs. Minimum NEC  
macmikeman  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 717
Honolulu, Hawaii
Anybody remember when the balcony fell at a hotel in I believe Kansas City quite a while back ? I do . The first thing they did was send in the forsenic engineers who raised hell because somebody did not follow the accepted plans.


#49979 - 03/22/05 12:53 PM Re: Approved plans Vs. Minimum NEC  
George  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 375
My general rules are:

1) show as little on the plans as is necessary.

2) the inspector checks that details on the plans are constructed as shown

3) the inspector shecks that details NOT on the plans are to code.


#49980 - 03/22/05 01:36 PM Re: Approved plans Vs. Minimum NEC  
mj  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 186
meriidian, ms
When you bid on a job, I am sure that a set of plans were given to you. Any wiring methods,materials,service size,grounding details,etc.. should be done according to the plans, However for those that wish to make extra profits just do not follow the plans.For example, use NMC instead of a Metal Raceway, install (50) circuits instead of (100). so when an if the wiring system fails because the plans were not followed, who is to blame, the AHJ, The General,or the Electrical Contractor ?


Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Member Spotlight
watersparkfalls
watersparkfalls
Washington...Not DC
Posts: 216
Joined: March 2005
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.016s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8197 MB (Peak: 0.9936 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-07-20 22:37:58 UTC