ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Potseal 11
Recent Posts
Permit Snafus...AHJs and Contractors Jump in
by HotLine1. 04/30/17 02:30 PM
201 volt equipment?
by bigpapa. 04/29/17 12:15 AM
Schneider LC1D09
by jraef. 04/28/17 11:05 PM
Electrode boilers question
by annemarie1. 04/27/17 01:40 PM
Why cables look like they do
by LongRunner. 04/26/17 09:36 AM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
235,042 Are you busy
169,884 Re: Forum
163,072 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 56 guests, and 9 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#49515 - 03/08/05 03:04 PM Exit Luminaire Circuiting  
Indcom  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 34
Katy, TX USA
Here's a situation that I haven't run into before.

We are troubleshooting exit lights and emegency lights in an older school of 3 buildings. All 3 buildings have the same 227v volt 20 amp circuit for Exits & Emegergency lighting. The actual Classroom and Administration building is where the power source originated from and it continues into the two unattached gyms that are only connected to the main bldg. via a covered walkway. Conduit and circuit are run underneath these walkways; or in some cases on top; to the gyms.

The Main bldg. has it's own Service Feeder and Distribution and the Gyms also have their own separate Service Feeder & distribution.

There is not an Emergency Stand-by system in place anywhere on this property.

My question is - Is there a NEC restriction to having the same continuos ciruit and raceway feeding from the Main Building to the two Gyms? If there is; I haven't been able to find it in the 700 Articles.

A little help here would greatly appreciated!


John C. Harvey
IndCom Electrical Estimates

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#49516 - 03/08/05 07:21 PM Re: Exit Luminaire Circuiting  
Redsy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
Since there is no Emergency "System", on site, are the Emergency Fixtures & Signs "Unit Equipment" per 700.12(E)?
If so, the local lighting circuit needs to be the source of supply. This would seem to prohibit the circuiting you describe.


#49517 - 03/08/05 08:08 PM Re: Exit Luminaire Circuiting  
Dave55  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 697
Crystal Lake, Illinois, USA
IMO having the emergency lighting on a lighting circuit is in violation of 700.15 (2002 NEC).

Dave


#49518 - 03/08/05 08:46 PM Re: Exit Luminaire Circuiting  
Redsy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
Dave,
Considering 700.12(E), 700.15 seems to pertain to facilities that have an "Emergency System". It appears that the facility in question does not have one, so I'm guessing that thes are "unit equipment"
The middle of the second paragraph of 700.12(E) states that the branch circuit feeding the unit equipment be the same branch circuit that serves the normal lighting in that area.

More discussion may be in order?


#49519 - 03/09/05 09:31 AM Re: Exit Luminaire Circuiting  
Indcom  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 34
Katy, TX USA
Thanks for the feed-back, guys! I believe that Art. 700.12(E) is the one that is applicable in this case. It seems to be the one that comes as close to the situation that I have now.

Now, all I gotta do is sell the idea of bringing it up to code with the school. LOL.


John C. Harvey
IndCom Electrical Estimates

#49520 - 03/10/05 08:10 PM Re: Exit Luminaire Circuiting  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,812
Brick, NJ USA
Not verbatim, as the bible is in the truck:

Egress lighting shall be connected to the local lighting circuit, ahead of the switch. Where there are more than three (3) local lighting circuits, an independent circuit may be installed, provided with a 'breaker lock'. (Meaning in a large open area with 4 to xx lighting circuits)

What you describe sounds like the "old" way, they used to tap a circuit ahead of the main (with OCP sized to the conductor) and feed all the "exit" units.

John


John

#49521 - 03/10/05 11:39 PM Re: Exit Luminaire Circuiting  
Dave55  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 697
Crystal Lake, Illinois, USA
Thanks for the correction. What can I use with high-bay MH lights considering the time it takes for them to re-strike?

Dave


#49522 - 03/10/05 11:57 PM Re: Exit Luminaire Circuiting  
frenchelectrican  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 939
Wi/ Paris France { France for ...
Dave55: there is few options you can use with the HID lighting systems.

1] you can use the standby quatz system intreaged with the ballast system which it mean that the quatz light bulb light up both cold and hot start until the light get up to about 50% brightness then switched off and HID bulb will take care the rest of it

2] have the seprated stand by circuit for the HID lighting system but this will really increase the cost of materal and labour for this

3] this rathter new item came out called "arc keeper "
http://www.bodine.com/products/specs/arckeeper.html

this link you will get to the arckeeper and it have good info there

it will get more popuar with HID system


if more question just drop a line here

merci , Marc


Pas de problme,il marche n'est-ce pas?"(No problem, it works doesn't it?)


#49523 - 03/11/05 03:36 PM Re: Exit Luminaire Circuiting  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,812
Brick, NJ USA
Dave:
I have to agree with Pierre, and have a few 'others' for your consideration:

Best solution for a NEW install is to get the quartz restrike option installed in the HID fixtures when ordering.

A common solution used widely here is:
Install a time delay (off) on the exit/emergency circuit that starts the set time delay upon restoration of normal power. (usually 10 to 15 min). That allows the HID's to re-strike.

Some guys install fluorescent channels in the egress areas as needed that 'light' instantaneously upon power restoration. This is dependent on the size of the jobsite, and some customers don't like the additional fixtures.

We usually install a phase loss monitor relay at the LP, that the exit/em circuit(s) are wired to, in case of only a phase loss, and not a full power fail.

Again, the ultimate solution needs a lot of 'answers' to find a solution. Don't despair, there's always a Code compliant answer!


John


Member Spotlight
Admin
Admin
NY, USA
Posts: 3,439
Joined: October 2000
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.016s Queries: 14 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8023 MB (Peak: 0.9675 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-05-01 04:25:34 UTC