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Ampacity allowances for 100A and less #49289
03/03/05 06:50 PM
03/03/05 06:50 PM
R
rogersan  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 23
La Mesa, CA, USA
I am a little confused on sizing for wires rated 100A or less. I think that you have to use the 60 deg. C tables for allowable ampacities since all terminals under 100A are rated at 60 deg. C (lowest rating of splice or term). Then demand factors/correction etc is applied to this (125% of motor loads etc?) Can someone explain this to me since it seems a little confusing. Also if you use table 310-15(b)(6) for dwellings can you use these straight across the board (say at 80% of calculated load?)

Thanks for the help


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Re: Ampacity allowances for 100A and less #49290
03/03/05 08:11 PM
03/03/05 08:11 PM
B
bucketman  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 72
vancouver WA, USA.
How do you know all 100a and less terminals are only rated 60c? are just most of them that way?
I've never looked to see. maybe I shood start looken.

so far as ajustment factores like D-rate with more than three current carrying conductors thats taken off the ampacity of the wire.

Re: Ampacity allowances for 100A and less #49291
03/03/05 11:13 PM
03/03/05 11:13 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,167
Estero,Fl,usa
You really have to look at the label on the device. I think I have even seen 30a 75c but I know there are 60a 75c breaker lugs.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Ampacity allowances for 100A and less #49292
03/04/05 01:03 AM
03/04/05 01:03 AM
N
Norstarr  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 86
Wi
I may be mistaken since I do not have a lot of terminations in front of me but I have usually found that most terminations are rated at 75 deg. The CH breaker I am holding in my hand right now has a dual rating of 60/75 deg. I will be paying more attention to my terminations in the future for the rating but I'm certain most are 75 deg. I very rarely use the 60 deg column.
In wisconsin we do not have to derate per Table 310.15(B)(2)(a) for residential wiring.
Table 310.15(B)(6) is simple to understand. If you calculate you need a 100 amp service you are allowed to use #4 wire instead of #3 and I believe this is mainly allowed because it is residential and the loads are intermittant and almost all non continuous unlike commercial and industrial.
Base your circuit ampacity on the 60 or 75 deg column (determined by your termination) and your conductor ampacity for derating and correction on the 90 degree column and use thhn wire. Hope this helps.
Ron

Re: Ampacity allowances for 100A and less #49293
03/04/05 08:05 AM
03/04/05 08:05 AM
B
bucketman  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 72
vancouver WA, USA.
"residential and the loads are intermittant and almost all non continuous"

Any thing thak can be on for 3 hours or more is continous. res. or com.

Re: Ampacity allowances for 100A and less #49294
03/04/05 09:46 AM
03/04/05 09:46 AM
W
watthead  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 172
South Carolina
Bucketman
Commercial lighting is considered by code to be continuous and residential is not.

Re: Ampacity allowances for 100A and less #49295
03/04/05 11:44 AM
03/04/05 11:44 AM
W
winnie  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 649
boston, ma
Just a couple of points here:

Terminals for <100A devices can be presumed to be rated at 60C, unless marked otherwise. Many (most??) circuit breakers are marked for 75C conductors. Most 'wire nuts' are marked for even higher temperature. I don't recall any temperature markings on receptacles and the like, however.

Table 310.15(b)(6) can only be applied in a very restricted class of situations. It can only be used with particular wire types and a particular application: the _main_ feed to a residence (including the NEC controlled part of the service entrance), _or_ the feeder supplying the main load of a residence, _or_ downstream feeders in a residence if they are as large as the main feeder. If you do a demand calculation on a residence, and it just happens to come out to 100A, then you can select a 100A conductor from table 310.15(b)(6).

For any load other than those specified in 310.15(b)(6), you have to start with table 310.16 (or the other ampacity tables) for your calculations, even if you are in a residence.

-Jon

Re: Ampacity allowances for 100A and less #49296
03/04/05 01:10 PM
03/04/05 01:10 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,167
Estero,Fl,usa
Here are some typical SqD breakers and their rating per the label. http://members.aol.com/gfretwell/breakers.jpg


Greg Fretwell
Re: Ampacity allowances for 100A and less #49297
03/04/05 08:53 PM
03/04/05 08:53 PM
R
rogersan  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 23
La Mesa, CA, USA
Ok, I think I found the section finally that answers my question. 110.14(C)(1)(a) states the 60 degree celsius for under 100A and 75 degree for over 100A unless otherwise marked. I think the intent is that the lowest ampacity rating for the entire circuit is the one that has to be used when determining allowable ampacities for conductors. If that sounds right please let me know.

Thanks for all the help.


It does not matter if you win or lose but how you lay the blame :-)

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