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#46699 - 12/31/04 01:24 PM LOTO  
amp-man  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 141
Sacto, California US of A
Hey everyone,

Happy New Year! Hope that 2005 wlll be a great one for you.

I'm interested in comments on a webvideo on LOTO that I did recently, see this link:
http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/pages/hvt048.asp

My goal was to introduce some LOTO practices to the homeowner (in about five minutes), so don't expect a comprehensive discussion of LOTO programs!

Thanks for all the good info and fellowship over the past year.

Cheeres,

Cliff


Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#46700 - 12/31/04 10:30 PM Re: LOTO  
John Steinke  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 518
Reno,Nv., USA
Easy way to open a can of worms...

Several of the practices shown on the video might be criticised as not being adequate...but, that said, I have some real problems with the official doctrine, as well as part of the "letter of the law."

I will say that 'anything is better than nothing.' I will point out that, in the days before those plastic lock-out things, common practice was to disconnect the wire from the breaker.

All in all, the clip is a step in the right direction!


#46701 - 01/01/05 01:10 AM Re: LOTO  
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,878
NY, USA
Cliff,

It's a good Message. The more precautions that are taken the less likely someone will get hurt while doing Electrical work.

I get mixed feelings about how much it might really help the Homeowner if it gives them the confidence to do something they really shouldn't be doing. That's another story, but if this is geared to the Homeowner/DIYer perhaps a reminder about what can still happen with a bad or unsafe installation should be added.

Happy New Year,
Bill


#46702 - 01/01/05 02:20 AM Re: LOTO  
LK  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
Quote:
"if this is geared to the Homeowner/DIYer perhaps a reminder about what can still happen with a bad or unsafe installation should be added."
__________________________________________
Bill,

I agree, what still can happen, and usually does.


#46703 - 01/02/05 05:25 AM Re: LOTO  
Trumpy  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,211
SI,New Zealand
At the end of the day Cliff,
A video that teaches the Homeowner about Electrical work, would need to be pretty comprehensive.
Personally, If I was going to make an instructional video, I would have sought advice from a number of sources.
Also I would have taken a great deal of time in planning exactly what was said and shown in the video, after all some people can and do get the wrong idea.
All of the Instructional video's I've ever seen have been at least 30 minutes+ and the same ideas have been re-inforced over the course of the presentation.
I would also put in things like wire colours and Cable types and things you should leave to an Electrician.

{Don't get me wrong Cliff, I aren't poking fun at you or anything like that, I'm just giving you some advice}


Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

#46704 - 01/02/05 03:19 PM Re: LOTO  
LK  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
Mike,
I agree the video is fine until it gets to using tape to secure a panel, there have been many cases where locks have been cut, to access a panel, and tape is too easy to remove, Lock Out, Tag Out, means just that, Install a personal keyed lock, and a proper Tag, with key holder information, or disconnect the circuit.
I remember the last course i took they made a point, of not using tape to secure a panel.

[This message has been edited by LK (edited 01-02-2005).]


#46705 - 01/02/05 03:29 PM Re: LOTO  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
LK OSHA recognizes use of just a tag if the device is not capable of being locked out.

There are some procedures to follow but it can be done compliantly.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#46706 - 01/02/05 03:36 PM Re: LOTO  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Quote
1910.147(c)(2)(i)
If an energy isolating device is not capable of being locked out, the employer's energy control program under paragraph (c)(1) of this section shall utilize a tagout system.


Quote
Capable of being locked out. An energy isolating device is capable of being locked out if it has a hasp or other means of attachment to which, or through which, a lock can be affixed, or it has a locking mechanism built into it. Other energy isolating devices are capable of being locked out, if lockout can be achieved without the need to dismantle, rebuild, or replace the energy isolating device or permanently alter its energy control capability.


Quote
Tagout. The placement of a tagout device on an energy isolating device, in accordance with an established procedure, to indicate that the energy isolating device and the equipment being controlled may not be operated until the tagout device is removed.


The above quotes where taken from the OHSA web site

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9804


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#46707 - 01/02/05 07:56 PM Re: LOTO  
LK  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
Bob,
Yes, where qualified personel have access to the area, then approved tag out would work, here, we are talking about homeowners, non qualified, I have been involved with safety groups, where we had to review serious incidents where circuits were energized while being worked on, not a pleasant task.



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