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Why did I need permits? #40838
08/05/04 05:40 PM
08/05/04 05:40 PM
maintenanceguy  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 300
Southern NJ, USA
I'm in charge of maintenance for a commercial property. This year we needed to get a pool "bonding and grounding" certification done by a licensed electrician and also need a municipal electrical inspection.

I got a letter telling me this from the township with two permit applications and instructions to fill them out and send them back in.

I assumed there just weren't enough swimming pools to justify comming up with a form for these so they were using permit forms instead so I filled out the name and address portion, had a contractor do the pool bonding and grounding inspection and attached his report and turned in the paperwork to the township.

I got a call...paperwork is wrong...needs to be sealed by an electrican. I truly didn't understand what the secretary was taling about. A permit for an inspection? She of course didn't have a clue and thought I was trying to give her a hard time and got angry.

So I went down to the office to talk to the AHJ. He's not in but the fire inspector came out to answer my questions. They wanted a sealed permit from the electrician that did the inspection. Odd but okay...I'll get it sealed.

And then they wanted the second permit filled out and sealed by the contractor for the electrical inspection the electrical subcode official is going to perform. Again I thought I had missed something and kept asking for clarification. But I'm sure I understood.

So I took the paperwork to my electrician and he couldn't believe it either. At first he didn't want to fill out the second permit for work he wouldn't even be involved in. I don't blame him. But he did me the favor and I dropped the newly completed applications off this afternoon to the secretary who snatched them out of my hand and said "We'll try these again." and turned her back and walked away before I could say thank you.

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Re: Why did I need permits? #40839
08/05/04 07:01 PM
08/05/04 07:01 PM
e57  Offline
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
Maybe remind the secretaries BOSS who his BOSS is, and call the MAYOR, remind him that they are all employed you, Seneor Taxpayer!

Odd bunch of inspections though, the city short on cash? Assuming you paid for each of these permits for previously inspected work to be inspected again?

Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
Re: Why did I need permits? #40840
08/06/04 08:16 AM
08/06/04 08:16 AM
earlydean  Offline
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 751
Griswold, CT, USA
Permitting is a town issue. I agree that the secretary didn't need to be rude, and a complaint needs to be made to the town fathers.

The permits, however, seem to be because of town ordinances. One for the work (inspection) done by the electrician, the second was probably due to another town ordinance requiring an annual inspection for public swimming pools. But, there is no reason why the electrician needed to seal (sign?)it. By sealing (signing?) the permit, the electrician takes responsibility for any violations that will need to be repaired/rectified. It ties you down to that electrician as well. The owner or property manager, as the responsible person, should have been the one to sign or seal this one.
Seems to me the inspection department is feeling their way with a new ordinance, using 2 permit forms instead of a new form, designed for the purpose, and requiring sealing (signing?) of permit forms by the contractor prior to sending an inspector out. (which is SOP for liability reasons)

Hopefully they will get it all together soon.

Re: Why did I need permits? #40841
08/06/04 10:35 AM
08/06/04 10:35 AM
HotLine1  Offline

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,918
Brick, NJ USA
As I understand the NJUCC from my Lic as Elec Sub-Code, and Elec Insp, HHS:

ALL commercial pools,(other than single family resi) are REQUIRED by State Law to have an "Annual Pool Inspection" for which an Electrical Tech Card (Permit Application) must be submitted to the local municipality. THIS permit application can be filled out & signed by "ANYONE"! IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE A Lic. EC.

THe "Pool Bonding/Grounding" requirements are that a 'certified' testing entity perform a bonding/grounding test to certify that the bonding/grounding is in conformance.
The testing entity provides a Certificate to the pool owner, of which a copy has to be attached to the "Annual Pool Inspection" tech card. The Certificate can be 'good' for a max of five years, this it the 'call' of the entity that is signing the document.

So, based on the above, apparently your TACO person in the muni bldg did not know the law. Not faulting anyone, but it's a confusion, unless the TACO handles a lot of Pool Inspections.

THe local Health Dept is NOT supposed to grant approval for the annual opening of any comm pool without the prior annual inspection signed-off by the Electrical Sub-Code, or Electrical Inspector. This is the perfect world rendition of the State Statute, as written, but unfortunatly, not a real world occurance.

BTW, the newest version of the UCC Electrical Tech Card has an "Annual Pool Inspection" line in the inspection box, but not in the 'item' column.

THe cause/reason for the required inspections can be explained to anyone who has interest; just ask!!


PS: MaintenanceGuy, if you want to discuss, send me an e-mail, and I'll give you my cell #.




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