ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
VDE 0100 to introduce AFCIs
by sparky. 01/20/18 05:09 PM
MRI LED lights dimmer control replacement - wow!
by Potseal. 01/19/18 08:52 PM
Video: Inventor of the GFCI self-testing shocks
by Bill Addiss. 01/17/18 11:11 PM
FPE in Germany
by HotLine1. 01/17/18 07:07 PM
Fujifilm Recalls Power Adapter Wall Plugs
by Admin. 01/16/18 07:04 PM
New in the Gallery:
Housebilding DIY wiring
SE cable question
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (sparky), 10 guests, and 10 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
What are Non-'Line to neutral' loads? #37029
04/20/04 01:43 PM
04/20/04 01:43 PM
H
Haligan  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 111
Berkeley, CA USA
I'm studying the Code dilligently and come across the 'line to neutral load' reference frequently. And I understand that fine.

What are examples of non- line to neutral loads? AC has to have return current.

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: What are Non-'Line to neutral' loads? #37030
04/20/04 01:49 PM
04/20/04 01:49 PM
C
cpalm1  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 66
in the U.S., 220 volt circuits would be an example of non-line to neutral loads. 220 is a line to line load.

Re: What are Non-'Line to neutral' loads? #37031
04/20/04 02:08 PM
04/20/04 02:08 PM
C
CTwireman  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 840
Connecticut, USA
cpalm1,

You are correct. However, "220" volts is an amateur term (IMHO) and should not be used.

Peter


Peter
Re: What are Non-'Line to neutral' loads? #37032
04/20/04 02:42 PM
04/20/04 02:42 PM
I
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
I hear you Peter but perhaps cpalm1 is from outside the US judging from his post.

Here are the 'Standard' voltages.

120, 120/240, 208Y/120, 240, 347, 480Y/277, 480, 600Y/347, and 600 volts shall be used.

208. 240, 480, and 600 are all line to line voltages.

I have only run into 347 once, and that was feeder for some sound equipment strangely enough.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
Re: What are Non-'Line to neutral' loads? #37033
04/20/04 02:53 PM
04/20/04 02:53 PM
E
Edward  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 308
California
Haligan,
where are you studying the code? At home or you are taking a code class?

Edward


Thanks
Edward
Re: What are Non-'Line to neutral' loads? #37034
04/20/04 02:58 PM
04/20/04 02:58 PM
G
GETELECTRIC  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 172
toronto canada
Just for information Canada primarily uses 600/347v.(ltg,motors etc.), very little 480/277 unless we get American equipment

Re: What are Non-'Line to neutral' loads? #37035
04/20/04 03:50 PM
04/20/04 03:50 PM
H
Haligan  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 111
Berkeley, CA USA
Edward-

I'm studying at home. In rainy California.

The answer to this question answered part of another issue I've been scratching my head about.

On line-line loads such as 240 mentioned, I understand here is a potential difference of 240v between both ungrounded conductors, and 120v potential between each ungrounded and grounded. So where is the return path for the current. None of my books go that deep into it. I'm guessing it's going throught the groundING conductor.

Example- You lose the neutral on a multiwire circuit. You end up with 240v. Where is the return path?

Re: What are Non-'Line to neutral' loads? #37036
04/20/04 04:00 PM
04/20/04 04:00 PM
I
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Take a look at the first schematic on
the left.

It shows a 480 volt primary 240/120 secondary transformer.

[Linked Image]

Between the two outside wires you
have 240, between one outside wire
and the center (the neutral) you
will have 120.

The return path for 240 is simply
the other conductor, by the way we
really do not want to call it a
return path as we are talking about alternating current.

This transformer has grounding
connections shown and that is fine
but grounding has nothing to do with operating equipment.

Grounding has to do with safety but
the circuits will work without
grounding connections.

Bob



[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 04-20-2004).]


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
Re: What are Non-'Line to neutral' loads? #37037
04/20/04 04:56 PM
04/20/04 04:56 PM
R
Ryan_J  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,374
West Jordan, Utah, USA
Bob: When I first saw your post I thought you were writing poetry about transformers.

And I thought I was sick...!


Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City
Re: What are Non-'Line to neutral' loads? #37038
04/20/04 05:24 PM
04/20/04 05:24 PM
I
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Quote
Bob: When I first saw your post I
thought you were writing poetry.


Yeah that will happen, I am one of those
Neanderthal, simple, shallow guys. [Linked Image]

[img]http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=Neanderthal/v=2/l=IVI/*-[/img]

I am by no means a poetry writer. [Linked Image]


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
waymag
waymag
dallas, texas, USA
Posts: 67
Joined: January 2002
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 20
sparky 16
Potseal 15
Popular Topics(Views)
243,576 Are you busy
180,374 Re: Forum
170,852 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.031s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 1.0230 MB (Peak: 1.2002 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-01-21 16:37:07 UTC