ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Recent Posts
Green House wiring
by gfretwell. 07/20/17 12:39 AM
1913 American Electrician's Handbook
by Admin. 07/19/17 08:41 PM
Permit Snafus...AHJs and Contractors Jump in
by HotLine1. 07/18/17 08:06 PM
210.70 / Wall Switch / When adopted?
by HotLine1. 07/16/17 11:25 AM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
239,163 Are you busy
174,542 Re: Forum
166,984 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (Potseal), 48 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#33799 - 01/28/04 04:57 PM Neon lights  
sparkync  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 826
NC
I've got to bid on a job with 6 transformers supplying neon lights. The information on one of the transformers said 240 VA. The transformers are 120 volt on line side. Has anyone done many of these neon lights? Is there any special code requirements other than sizing, overcurrent, etc... I haven't had much success trying to find out in the code... Sort of hectic around my place with the snow, grandchildren etc..... ....
Thanks a lot.. Steve
PS: I'm trying to find out the load on 1 of these transformers. Some reason the 240 VA is confusing me....
Sorry to be so dumb [Linked Image] Thanks again [Linked Image]


Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#33800 - 01/28/04 05:25 PM Re: Neon lights  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Sparky there is a lot to neon lighting.

Check out these links.

http://www.signweb.com/neon/cont/neonrepair.html

http://www.universalballast.com/techSupport/trouble_shooting/neon_qa.html

There where provided for me when I needed neon help at this thread.

https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002750.html

Good luck and be careful this stuff can start fires.

Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#33801 - 01/28/04 05:37 PM Re: Neon lights  
sparkync  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 826
NC
Before my ignorance really shows, forget about the 240 VA, equivalent to approx. 240 watts, right??? [Linked Image] I was taught in school before they changed it... years ago... it's coming back to me now, I think [Linked Image] Steve...

BTW the lights are already installed, new lights, I'm just to pull power to the transformers...


#33802 - 01/28/04 06:14 PM Re: Neon lights  
sparkync  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 826
NC
Ok, grand daughter went home, and I was able to get out my code book. I found the in's and out's of the wiring required. And according to my interpretation of the disconnects required, it says in
Article 600-6 ( 99 code), "Each sign and outline lihgting system, or feeder circuit or branch circuit supplying a sign or outline lighting system, shall be controlled by an externally operable switch or circuit breaker that will open all ungrounded conductors". When it says "each", I assume this means that each transformer is considered a different system, therefore requiring a disconnect at each transformer.
If anyone has a different or better interpretation, I would appreciate your response. Thanks a lot, sorry for all the unneccesary questions. It's one of them rush days... Thanks again.. Steve


#33803 - 01/28/04 08:38 PM Re: Neon lights  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,851
Brick, NJ USA
Steve:
Check the neon xfr, some of the new ones have a switch factory installed, that is the required disc. 240 va is 2 amps at 120 volts, 6 xfrs = 12 amps, 1-20 amp circuit, (or 15) will work.

As to the actual 'neon' part, the secondary from the xfr, the neon guy probably did that. CYA, buddy, and make sure the AHJ knows that, and the customer is aware of that.

John


John

#33804 - 01/28/04 09:23 PM Re: Neon lights  
cavo148  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 79
New Jersey
Steve, you'll need a switch for each primary (supply) circuit within sight of the neon. There are a few options as to where to locate the switch in the code. The reason for the switch is to provide a safe disconnect for the service tech. making repairs to the sign/neon.

Andy


#33805 - 01/30/04 07:27 AM Re: Neon lights  
Scott35  Offline

Broom Pusher and
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,707
Anaheim, CA. USA
The "Cold-Cathode" systems I worked on had a Transformer with Secondary output of 120ma @ 5KV (600 VA), with a 120VAC Primary.
Heavy sucker!
One was sent with a broken Bushing (Insulator), and the replacement took weeeeeeeeeeekkkkkkkssssss to arrive!

Funny thing about the Cold-Cathode Transformer, it had no Secondary GFPE included!

The "Normal" Neon setups I have seen in the last couple years, used Transformers with GFPE sensing for the Secondary + Lamp circuitry.

All setups mentioned here used GTO-15 cable.

Scott35


Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

#33806 - 02/01/04 09:52 PM Re: Neon lights  
Batch  Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6
Fort Lauderdale, FL
You should put one disconnect switch on the back of the wall with the transformers and one disconnect switch should have been installed on the exterior near the channel letters.

It is likely that each transformer could have a different load. So you will have to determine whether a single 20 amp circuit or a 30 amp circuit or double 20 amp cicuits should be used.

In either case use just one switch arranged so that once disconnected their are no live conductors in ANY of the transformer cans.

There are exceptions that allow a lockable disconnect to be located elsewhere but that kinda of circumvents the purpose of the switch in the first place.

Hope that helps. [Linked Image]


#33807 - 02/01/04 09:57 PM Re: Neon lights  
Batch  Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6
Fort Lauderdale, FL
You should put one disconnect switch on the back of the wall with the transformers and one disconnect switch should have been installed on the exterior near the channel letters.

It is likely that each transformer could have a different load. So you will have to determine whether a single 20 amp circuit or a 30 amp circuit or double 20 amp cicuits should be used.

In either case use just one switch arranged so that once disconnected their are no live conductors in ANY of the transformer cans.

There are exceptions that allow a lockable disconnect to be located elsewhere but that kinda of circumvents the purpose of the switch in the first place.

Hope that helps. [Linked Image]



Member Spotlight
RH1
RH1
California
Posts: 22
Joined: August 2009
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.015s Queries: 14 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8040 MB (Peak: 0.9694 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-07-20 12:36:33 UTC