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#31309 - 11/17/03 06:35 PM Observations from my day  
Electricmanscott  Offline
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
Working today in a house less than a year old. Neat and workmanlike? Not even close. Two cables stapled together on edge? Works for us! Afci's? We don't need no stinking afci's! Two 30 circuit panels. Full to capacity no room for another circuit. Tighten the lugs for the feeder? Nah, just strip the wires and stick them in. Properly size feeder to sub panel? No can do. Just use table 310.15 B 6. Close enough. The kicker here? The guy put a sticker with his name on the panel. How nice of him to think of the fire marshall. It would have helped him find the culprit had I not tightned up the lugs. Paging the wiring inspector.......

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#31310 - 11/17/03 07:10 PM Re: Observations from my day  
sparky  Offline
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,311
Paging the wiring inspector

and if you did not have one to page what would you fall back on?


#31311 - 11/17/03 09:22 PM Re: Observations from my day  
Electricmanscott  Offline
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
Sparky I really don't know. In MA we have a pretty strict inspectional and licensing system. It is not foolproof though. The house described is in the same town as the pictures I sent in under the topic "Unusual light setup". Makes me wonder.

#31312 - 11/17/03 09:58 PM Re: Observations from my day  
ga.sparky56  Offline
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 558
young harris georgia usa
Typical response you'd get here from a builder or homeowner would be"There ain't no codes here"

Church going up down the road,State Fire Code says it should be piped, we bid it that way and got Hee-Hawed. It's now romexed,complete with flying splices,no exit/emergency lighting,and 2 125a subs fed with #6 Se cable.

"There ain't no codes here,besides that metal pipe costs too much"


PS, It was wired by church members who have"done some wirin'"

[This message has been edited by ga.sparky56 (edited 11-17-2003).]

#31313 - 11/17/03 10:14 PM Re: Observations from my day  
txsparky  Offline
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 552
Magnolia,.Texas U.S.A.

PS, It was wired by church members who have"done some wirin'"

Gives em something to pray about?


#31314 - 11/18/03 01:23 AM Re: Observations from my day  
Big Jim  Offline
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 394
Denver, CO USA
Ouch! You just hit one of my sore points. Christian churches usually claim the Bible as their authority but choose to ignore the verse about "render unto Caeser what is Caeser's" That says follow the government rules. Churches are often gathering places for older folks and innocent children. I have exactly ZERO sympathy for cheapskate deacons. I would do everything in my power to get the building condemmed and closed ASAP. By the way,I am a regular church attender and volunteer my time in maintenance.

#31315 - 11/18/03 07:11 AM Re: Observations from my day  
sparky  Offline
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,311
you see Electricmanscott, if in fact you become the one whom is to uphold the code, you have to rationalize with people toe to toe...

This done without any teeth becomes a diplomatic venture, made infinitley challenging by nonsensical codes

Take 42 circuits for example, an AHJ can write this up with impudicity where sorts like myself are left jabbering about a 1926 Waldorf Astoria fire...

#31316 - 11/18/03 09:53 AM Re: Observations from my day  
rowdyrudy  Offline
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 169
Mascoutah, IL USA
Best bet here is to contact insurance underwriters and notify them of dangerous installation. Several years ago I was hired by a major Ins. Co to inspect country clubs, churches, halls, etc, where they had written policies. Some of the items found were unbelievable. Most of the problems were by members “helping out”. 27 of 30 policies were canceled and the other 3 had major work done. 2 closed down completely. Don’t know what ever happened to the other 25.

#31317 - 11/23/03 07:52 PM Re: Observations from my day  
DougW  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,143
North Chicago, IL

That's a nasty trick.. I like it! [Linked Image]

(We have a similar trick for arson fires that don't get proved in court...

It's all in the fine print, boys!)

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