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Why don't they make a true AFCI & GFCI in one breaker? #30171
10/06/03 09:33 PM
10/06/03 09:33 PM
E
Electric Eagle  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 914
Alpharetta, GA
Or maybe they do and I just don't know it, but I could've used one today.

We upgraded the service on a 1972 house from 150 amp to 200 amp with a larger panel to allow for a large addition the homeowner is planning. While labeling the new panel, we discovered that the entire upstairs - 4 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, the attic, hall, and a whole house fan were on one 15 amp circuit. This circuit was on a GFCI breaker, I guess to protect the bathroom outlets, but we had to replace it with an AFCI to comply with 210.12(B). If AFCI's were also GFCI's, then that would be the end of it, but we now have to change the bathroom outlets to GFCI's. I'm actually going to try to sell the homeowner an upgrade of the bath outlets to a 20 amp circuit and splitting the rest of the circuit into 3 circuits, but that's beside the point.

If an AFCI can detect a ground fault, why don't they make them compliant with AFCI and GFCi rules?

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Re: Why don't they make a true AFCI & GFCI in one breaker? #30172
10/06/03 09:38 PM
10/06/03 09:38 PM
C
caselec  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 558
San Jose, CA
EE

Cutler-Hammer does make combination AFCI/GFCI breakers. If you need a part number I will look it up for you. I don't know if any of the other manufactures plan on offering a combination device. I read on one of the forums that Square D was going to offer one but I haven't seen it yet.

Curt


Curt Swartz
Re: Why don't they make a true AFCI & GFCI in one breaker? #30173
10/07/03 04:00 PM
10/07/03 04:00 PM
P
PCBelarge  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 681
Dobbs Ferry, NY, USA
Listing of AFCI 'devices' has 6 categories in the UL White Book.
The 'combo' unit is not an AFCI/GFCI unit. What is technically a combo unit is: The unit will protect the branch circuit, AND the cord plugged into the receptacle outlet.

Square D has a 'combo' unit coming out in early 2004. Again combo does not mean AFCI/GFCI.

All manufacturers of AFCI breakers produce their product with class B level GFCI in the same unit as the AFCI.

In studies performed recently, the reason for AFCI breakers tripping 83% of the time is because of faulty wiring conditions tripping the GFCI portion of the AFCI breaker (grounded conductor to equipment grounding conductor connections).

Pierre


[This message has been edited by PCBelarge (edited 10-07-2003).]


Pierre Belarge
Re: Why don't they make a true AFCI & GFCI in one breaker? #30174
10/07/03 08:29 PM
10/07/03 08:29 PM
C
caselec  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 558
San Jose, CA
Pierre

I guess I used the wrong terminology when I called it a combo unit. Cutler-Hammer makes AFCI breakers that also have class A GFCI protection.

The part numbers are:
BR115AFGF
BR120AFGF
CH115AFGF
CH120AFGF

Curt


Curt Swartz

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