ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Potseal 11
Recent Posts
600 KW 120/208 3 Phase Y protection
by SteveFehr. 07/23/17 09:46 AM
1913 American Electrician's Handbook
by gfretwell. 07/20/17 01:08 PM
Green House wiring
by ghost307. 07/20/17 09:10 AM
Permit Snafus...AHJs and Contractors Jump in
by HotLine1. 07/18/17 08:06 PM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
239,260 Are you busy
174,689 Re: Forum
167,090 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 65 guests, and 11 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#29892 - 09/27/03 03:32 AM PVC underground  
aldav53  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 545
Chandler, AZ USA
I'm doing a job and have to run PVC underground which should be 18" deep, and metal ridgid with pipe wrap at the ends where it comes out of the ground. I have seen jobs where the PVC was run up from the underground to above ground level which should be against code, even though the PVC is marked schedule 40 ridgid. I don't believe this is legal. Correct?


The Golden Rule - "The man with the gold makes the rule"

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#29893 - 09/27/03 08:39 AM Re: PVC underground  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,311
aldav53
i know of no code ref here , other than that of 'physical damage' that would dictate steel on UG surfacing.

even then, sch 80 goes a long way....

fwiw, there would be more of a focus on the grounding of an isolated sweep, either in burial depth or bonding to it.

there would also be some technicalities feeders/branch circuits vs. service entrance

so you'll need to expand a tad for us

~S~


#29894 - 09/27/03 01:44 PM Re: PVC underground  
aldav53  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 545
Chandler, AZ USA
They will be branch circuits from a 200a subpanel feeding a Spa, barbecue, waterfall, etc.
(Using Schedule 40)


The Golden Rule - "The man with the gold makes the rule"

#29895 - 09/27/03 03:10 PM Re: PVC underground  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
It is perfectly code compliant to break the surface with PVC and there are many installations in this area that do just that.

Underground Dwelling services are often done that way.

For myself I prefer to use IMC or RMC to come up out of the ground.

An isolated elbow must have all parts of it 18" below earth or be encased in 2" of concrete. 250.86 Exception No. 3

Now if only the POCO would bond their rigid pole risers we would be doing something

[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 09-27-2003).]


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#29896 - 09/27/03 08:34 PM Re: PVC underground  
DougW  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,143
North Chicago, IL
[brokenrecord] Check with your AHJ [/brokenrecord]

It's illegal in my community to have PVC as the "groundbreaker" - it MUST be RMC/IMC to min burial depth for the raceway or cable.


#29897 - 09/28/03 11:16 AM Re: PVC underground  
Electric Eagle  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 914
Alpharetta, GA
This is what the NEC handbook has to say.

Quote
Rigid Nonmetallic Schedule 40 and Schedule 80 PVC Conduit (DZYR)
Rigid nonmetallic Schedule 40 PVC conduit is suitable for underground use by direct burial or encasement in concrete. Unless marked “Underground Use Only” or equivalent wording, Schedule 40 conduit is also suitable for above ground use indoors or outdoors exposed to sunlight and weather where not subject to physical damage.
Schedule 80 conduit has a reduced cross-sectional area available for wiring space and is suitable for use wherever Schedule 40 conduit may be used. The marking “Schedule 80” identifies the conduit as suitable for use where exposed to physical damage and for installations on poles to comply with Section 352.10(F) and 352.12(C).


I've never seen any underground service done with any material other than PVC. And as long as its schedule 80, it should pass anywhere.


#29898 - 09/28/03 11:45 AM Re: PVC underground  
elektrikguy  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 132
woodstock,ga,usa
Agree with all above posters. Also it should state right on the PVC conduit its schedule and its limitations for usage if doubt arises during installation. The subject of physical damage needs to be taken into consideration. For services where vehicular traffic is present concrete bollards will alleviate this problem.


#29899 - 09/29/03 12:24 AM Re: PVC underground  
aldav53  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 545
Chandler, AZ USA
The part in the code where it says PVC can be run above ground if "not subject to physical damage" can possibly be a gray area, but tells me it cannot be run up out of the ground, should be ridgid I believe with 20ml pipe wrap.


The Golden Rule - "The man with the gold makes the rule"

#29900 - 09/30/03 08:25 PM Re: PVC underground  
Speedy Petey  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 173
Upstate, NY
"but tells me it cannot be run up out of the ground"
That is a very bold assumption. It can also be a costly one, for you.

PVC is very regularly run above ground. The subject to physical damage is just that. A service riser going up a utility pole along a roadway is subject to physical damage, we use galv. The other end of the same pipe going into the meter pan on the side of someone's house surrounded by shrubs and grass IMO is not "subject to physical damage" any more than sch 80 can ahndle.


Speedy Petey

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." -Albert Einstein

#29901 - 10/01/03 04:30 AM Re: PVC underground  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
aldav53

Running PVC up out of the ground is very common.

The subject to physical damaged part is a judgment call between you and the inspector.

Take a look at 334.15(B) and you will see PVC listed as a means to protect NM and UF (334.10(4) conductors from physical damage.

If you do not like to break the surface with PVC do not do it, I do not, but it is in most cases code compliant.


Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts


Member Spotlight
electure
electure
Fullerton, CA USA
Posts: 4,260
Joined: December 2000
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.016s Queries: 14 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8094 MB (Peak: 0.9830 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-07-24 00:48:23 UTC