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GFCI #24729
04/21/03 11:04 PM
04/21/03 11:04 PM
L
LK  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
When replacing an existing outlet with a GFCI the rules are no ground then no ground downstream. when there is a full size ground then connect all grounds. What is the accepted practice when a reduced size 16ga bare ground is connected. Do you open the ground connection, continue the ground downstream; or connect the reduced ground on all devices

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Re: GFCI #24730
04/22/03 05:03 AM
04/22/03 05:03 AM
Z
zapped208  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 197
Somewhere in USA
I treat it like a full size ground, and attach to all devices.


Shoot first, apologize later.....maybe
Re: GFCI #24731
04/22/03 08:57 AM
04/22/03 08:57 AM
G
GEO  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 47
Lancaster,Pa
not sure of the question ? do you mean a/c (bx) cable , what type of boxes ? GEO

Re: GFCI #24732
04/22/03 01:44 PM
04/22/03 01:44 PM
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,890
NY, USA
LK,

Do you mean the smaller size ground wire that was in the older NM cables?

Re: GFCI #24733
04/22/03 04:37 PM
04/22/03 04:37 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,919
Brick, NJ USA
LK:
In my opinion, a reduced size (wire guage) ground conductor is better than "no ground". The older NM cable had 16 gauge ground, and most of that cable was/is #14, for the hot and neutral conductors, and should be on a 15 amp OCP.

As an AHJ ion NJ, I would accept the undersized ground. For any arguments, I would fall back to "good old common sense", but as there is no NEC article for that, I would use the NJ "Rehab" Code out of the UCC (5:23 et al)

John


John
Re: GFCI #24734
04/22/03 07:44 PM
04/22/03 07:44 PM
L
LK  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
I find reduced grounds under cable clamps, twisted under sheet metal screws and pushed through holes in the box. None of these connections are good grounding practices.
When installing a GFCI I find it best to check all down stream ground connections.
It looks like everyone agrees reduced ground better then none at all.
LK

Re: GFCI #24735
04/22/03 08:38 PM
04/22/03 08:38 PM
S
Steve T  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 306
Oak Park, IL, USA
Then of course a reduced ground will show a ground with your average tester, but may increase the resistance enough in the event of a fault to not trip the OCPD. In which case it would be better to mark the GFCI as "no equipment ground" so no one is deceived about the actual grounding ability of the circuit.

Re: GFCI #24736
04/22/03 10:19 PM
04/22/03 10:19 PM
L
LK  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
Steve:
Good point this is why some type of marking should note the missing link. I have a problem finding a label NO EQUIPMENT GROUND the GFCI Mfg. should put them in the box. They have about 4 info sheets in there now.

LK

Re: GFCI #24737
04/23/03 05:48 AM
04/23/03 05:48 AM
R
Redsy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
LK,

Most GFCI manufacturers now include both labels in the box. (GFCI protected outlet, No equipment ground).

Re: GFCI #24738
04/23/03 09:09 AM
04/23/03 09:09 AM
R
rmiell  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 242
La Junta, Co. USA
In this situation, why is the existing (reduced) equipment grounding conductor better than none? The whole circuit is protected by a GFCI, which will trip faster than the breaker will, in the event of a ground fault. That is it's function. IMOI, I would think the reduced egc is equal to no egc. Don't use it.

If you are talking about a non-gfci protected circuit, then, yes the reduced egc is preferred to none.
_________________
Rick Miell

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