ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Potseal 11
Recent Posts
Dimmable LED 2x4 lay in fixtures
by Potseal. 04/23/17 07:18 PM
Old decora style outlets
by Lostazhell. 04/22/17 07:59 PM
Permit Snafus...AHJs and Contractors Jump in
by gfretwell. 04/22/17 01:11 PM
How do you find a good employee?
by HotLine1. 04/22/17 10:44 AM
Electrode boilers question
by SteveFehr. 04/21/17 08:32 AM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
234,494 Are you busy
169,159 Re: Forum
162,509 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
2 registered members (Potseal, NORCAL), 73 guests, and 10 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#24729 - 04/22/03 12:04 AM GFCI  
LK  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
When replacing an existing outlet with a GFCI the rules are no ground then no ground downstream. when there is a full size ground then connect all grounds. What is the accepted practice when a reduced size 16ga bare ground is connected. Do you open the ground connection, continue the ground downstream; or connect the reduced ground on all devices


Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#24730 - 04/22/03 06:03 AM Re: GFCI  
zapped208  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 196
Somewhere in USA
I treat it like a full size ground, and attach to all devices.


Shoot first, apologize later.....maybe

#24731 - 04/22/03 09:57 AM Re: GFCI  
GEO  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 47
Lancaster,Pa
not sure of the question ? do you mean a/c (bx) cable , what type of boxes ? GEO


#24732 - 04/22/03 02:44 PM Re: GFCI  
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,878
NY, USA
LK,

Do you mean the smaller size ground wire that was in the older NM cables?


#24733 - 04/22/03 05:37 PM Re: GFCI  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,808
Brick, NJ USA
LK:
In my opinion, a reduced size (wire guage) ground conductor is better than "no ground". The older NM cable had 16 gauge ground, and most of that cable was/is #14, for the hot and neutral conductors, and should be on a 15 amp OCP.

As an AHJ ion NJ, I would accept the undersized ground. For any arguments, I would fall back to "good old common sense", but as there is no NEC article for that, I would use the NJ "Rehab" Code out of the UCC (5:23 et al)

John


John

#24734 - 04/22/03 08:44 PM Re: GFCI  
LK  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
I find reduced grounds under cable clamps, twisted under sheet metal screws and pushed through holes in the box. None of these connections are good grounding practices.
When installing a GFCI I find it best to check all down stream ground connections.
It looks like everyone agrees reduced ground better then none at all.
LK


#24735 - 04/22/03 09:38 PM Re: GFCI  
Steve T  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 306
Oak Park, IL, USA
Then of course a reduced ground will show a ground with your average tester, but may increase the resistance enough in the event of a fault to not trip the OCPD. In which case it would be better to mark the GFCI as "no equipment ground" so no one is deceived about the actual grounding ability of the circuit.


#24736 - 04/22/03 11:19 PM Re: GFCI  
LK  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
Steve:
Good point this is why some type of marking should note the missing link. I have a problem finding a label NO EQUIPMENT GROUND the GFCI Mfg. should put them in the box. They have about 4 info sheets in there now.

LK


#24737 - 04/23/03 06:48 AM Re: GFCI  
Redsy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
LK,

Most GFCI manufacturers now include both labels in the box. (GFCI protected outlet, No equipment ground).


#24738 - 04/23/03 10:09 AM Re: GFCI  
rmiell  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 242
La Junta, Co. USA
In this situation, why is the existing (reduced) equipment grounding conductor better than none? The whole circuit is protected by a GFCI, which will trip faster than the breaker will, in the event of a ground fault. That is it's function. IMOI, I would think the reduced egc is equal to no egc. Don't use it.

If you are talking about a non-gfci protected circuit, then, yes the reduced egc is preferred to none.
_________________
Rick Miell


Page 1 of 2 1 2

Member Spotlight
Grover
Grover
Sebago, ME, USA
Posts: 109
Joined: January 2005
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.015s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8148 MB (Peak: 0.9933 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-04-23 23:33:32 UTC