ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
twh 10
Admin 4
Recent Posts
Dryer, Range grounding from "Main" panel
by gfretwell. 05/24/17 12:56 AM
Any UL 508 experts out there?
by sparkyinak. 05/23/17 11:04 PM
Heat pump conundrum
by sparkyinak. 05/21/17 08:49 PM
Interesting week
by HotLine1. 05/20/17 11:57 AM
Electrical Pricing Guide
by ElectricianBud. 05/18/17 12:17 PM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
236,690 Are you busy
171,677 Re: Forum
164,640 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 40 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#22750 - 02/27/03 10:11 PM pool bonding  
chuck  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 10
decatur,il/usa
above ground pools that are considered permantly installed due to water depth per 680. They are required to be bonded if I am correct. If so how do u accomplish 6this, since tere are no bonding lugs on these pools and many of the parts are simply snapped together. If u attach bonding lugs, how do u accomplish this when sheet metal screw are not allowed for bonding and grounding connections.....Thanx


Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#22751 - 02/27/03 10:21 PM Re: pool bonding  
WebSparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 138
Cleveland, Ohio
Welcome Chuck,

Could you please be more specific as to what needs to be grounded?

If you are refering to the actual structure of the pool, there is no such requirement that I can find in the 2002 NEC.

Thanks,
Dave


Dave

#22752 - 02/27/03 10:27 PM Re: pool bonding  
WebSparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 138
Cleveland, Ohio
OH, I think I just found it!
680.26(B)(1)

The only time I have thought of this part of the code is for the hand rails and such of an in-ground pool! I'm not so sure it applies to a above ground pool.

Ummmm........maybe some ahj reads it differently?

Dave


Dave

#22753 - 02/27/03 10:35 PM Re: pool bonding  
Elzappr  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 270
Oregon
I suppose it all depends on if there is anything electrical going into the pool. It sounds like you are dealing with metal sections that are enamel coated, with interlocking sections. Sounds like you would have to separately bond each section to the common bond wire. But, I think there might be a way out.

680.26(B)4 talks about circulating pumps that are double insulated...not requiring to be bonded. If the non-bond circulating pump is the only electrical thing in the pool, then why bother bonding anything else? Remember, the need for bonding is to eliminate voltage gradients, per 680.26(A). There can't BE voltage gradients if there is no voltage at all.

Have you checked with the AHJ?


#22754 - 02/27/03 10:50 PM Re: pool bonding  
harold endean  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
Hi Chuck,

Welcome to the board. Are you talking about the new styles of above ground pools that are plastic or PVC clad? Some of these new pools might not need to be bonded if there is no metal. There are some new PVC inground pools too. The only thing that can be bonded on them is the metal coping that holds the liner into the pool. Is this what you mean?


#22755 - 02/27/03 10:54 PM Re: pool bonding  
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,878
NY, USA
Voltage Gradients can exist because of other Electrical systems in the area too. If you look in 680.26(B)(1) and (3) it specifies that all Metallic Structural Components and parts over a certain dimension shall be bonded together, it says nothing about Electrical items that must exist. So, if the Pool frame is metal, it must be Bonded.

There is an Article somewhere about a Community Pool where people were getting shocks. The source turned out to be an Electrical fault some Blocks away if memory serves me. The problem was with the construction of the pool and the fact that they used coated Rebar. The reasoning was that it would hold up better underground, but because it was coated it did not provide an adequate Bonding Grid. If I can find the Article I will post it here.

Bill


[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 02-27-2003).]


#22756 - 02/27/03 11:04 PM Re: pool bonding  
chuck  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 10
decatur,il/usa
Well guys I am the ahj.680 states that a pool that will hold more than 42 inches of water is a permanent poola nd must e bonded accordinly. Also the pump requirements are different for a permanent pool. most all above ground pools have both metal and vinyl or painted parts. DO u differntiat from storable and premanent by water depth.some have wlls that are painted metal. some are vinyl coated. question remains ...do u call all above ground pools storable and wire accordinly or do u differentiate.


#22757 - 03/03/03 08:09 PM Re: pool bonding  
mvrandazzo  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 110
In my area we bond all the way around the outside of an above ground pool. Most of the above ground pools I've seen have a metal rail that is secured around the top. We use copper lugs attached at the base of the pool where a bracket secures the metal uprights. Usually every other upright gets a lug. The screws are usually stainless. If no screw is available I always keep my 10-32 tap handy and some stainless machine screws. The wire is also bonded to the pump motor, outlet box serving the pump motor and anything metal within 5' from the inside wall of the pool. Including fences, metal siding, gutters and downspouts. Usually blow out 100 feet of solid 8 awg and 8 - 10 lugs for every pool I do. No ground rod, of course.
Blessings!


#22758 - 03/03/03 10:06 PM Re: pool bonding  
Electricmanscott  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
That last post saved me alot of typing!


#22759 - 03/04/03 09:29 PM Re: pool bonding  
harold endean  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
Chuck,

To me a storable pool is any pool that gets filled up and empty every year. If the pool stays up year after year, I would not consider it "storable". As for bonding, if all of the uprights are plastic or PVC, and the handrails, ladders, etc. is plastic. Then nothing has to be bonded. If there is any metal on the pool, or within 5' of this pool, then it must be bonded together with the pool motor.


Page 1 of 2 1 2

Member Spotlight
RH1
RH1
California
Posts: 22
Joined: August 2009
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.015s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8177 MB (Peak: 0.9935 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-05-24 09:53:31 UTC