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Question #22002
02/15/03 02:05 PM
02/15/03 02:05 PM
rowdyrudy  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 169
Mascoutah, IL USA
As I have been certified by the courts as an "expert witness" I receive quite a bit of info from bar associations and attorneys. There seems to be a great resistance to AFCI's in one and two family dwellings. Typical is a copy I received in the mail today from Decatur, AL. As in many areas that modify the NEC, there are numerous jurisdictions that have passed legislation with only one change to the NEC and that is AFCI's. Also, there are challenges to ahj's on a regular basis with the challenger prevailing in more than 90% of the disputes. What's going on? Is resistance building against the NEC? It would appear that due to EC's being rejected in more than 95% of their code recommendations and mfgrs being approved on their recommendations by a near 99% margin that resistance could be increasing. From what I read, some of these municipalities are beginning to realize that the EC's are the businesses that bring in local taxes, not equipment mfgrs. What's the concensus in your area?

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Re: Question #22003
02/15/03 04:11 PM
02/15/03 04:11 PM
ga.sparky56  Offline
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 558
young harris georgia usa
Rudy,in my home county in ne ga. there's no inspections of any kind,except for septic systems.The county commision brought the question of code(s) and inspections up a few years ago.It never got past the (town meeting) public forum.There are counties around us that have adopted the nec with various and sundry revisions/deletions.One that comes to mind is no 14 ga. wire allowed.In my humble opinion,the revisions reflect the opinions of local govt.who most of the time don't know what their reading or have a retired ec telling them what their reading and adjusting things as he goes.Then they hire an inspector who has little or no training, electrical or otherwise on a temporary basis (until he can attend training classes) is it any wonder ec,s win so many challenges?I see this situation on a regular basis.One county we work in has had 4 different inspectors in the last year.And they could all give you different interpretations of any given code section! Russell

[This message has been edited by ga.sparky56 (edited 02-15-2003).]

Re: Question #22004
02/15/03 07:54 PM
02/15/03 07:54 PM
sparky  Offline
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,342
IMO rowdy it's a 'top down' trade, and the EC is at the bottom.
All the those trade mags full of advertising manufacturer's and articles from the same are tesitimony to this.
These orginizations that laud themselves as watchdogs of the trade watch thier P/E ratio more than anything else.
If we in the trenches whine, an ROP is thrown in our face , with some bull about democratic process.
Money talks, the rest can just listen

Re: Question #22005
02/15/03 09:24 PM
02/15/03 09:24 PM
Electric Eagle  Offline
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 914
Alpharetta, GA
ga.sparky - You must be in Pickens County. That's the only one I know that doesn't have inspections. What county outlawed 14 gauge wire, I haven't run across that one. It'd be my luck we'd wire 3 houses before we called in an inspection and have to rewire them.

Re: Question #22006
02/15/03 11:16 PM
02/15/03 11:16 PM
ga.sparky56  Offline
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 558
young harris georgia usa
Eagle,I'm in Towns county.Union co.doesn't have them either.Rabun did'nt used to but I,m not sure now.The 14 guage wire deal used to be true in White co.but I haven't worked there in years.P.S. Eagle,come up to the mountains some time and we'll go mud bogging!

[This message has been edited by ga.sparky56 (edited 02-15-2003).]

Re: Question #22007
02/17/03 09:22 PM
02/17/03 09:22 PM
nesparky  Offline
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 642
My opinion of AFCI has been included in a number of past posts. To my total agreement my state deleted the AFCI requirements. The board declined to be involved in the manufacturers beta testing at our cutomers expense and to the manufacturers profit. Most of board members I was able to talk to did not like or agree with the code committe's bowing down to the B.S that was used to justify the changes.
Maybe in a few years, adequate information will be availble to know how many fires and electrocutions these ACFI DO actually prevent. Then with real data an informed decision can be made.
I do know that when I added the cost of these items to my bids, I was always under bid. Almost all GC's told me that they were not going to pay additional cost just because "your code changed".
Residential work here is very tight at bid time, very demanding of scheduled time and low profit. Since the economy has slowed It has gotten worse. There are some hungry people out there and GC's are taking atvantage of it.



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