ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
twh 3
Recent Posts
FPE in Germany
by Texas_Ranger. 11/19/17 07:30 AM
Ceiling fan distance from outdoor hot tub
by gfretwell. 11/16/17 02:18 AM
diazed fuses
by Texas_Ranger. 11/13/17 03:02 PM
Theft deterrent alarm
by gfretwell. 11/12/17 01:39 PM
EEPROM errors on XC7Z010-2CLG225I chip
by twh. 11/07/17 05:45 PM
New in the Gallery:
Gallery Test
Popular Topics(Views)
242,603 Are you busy
178,785 Re: Forum
170,039 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 28 guests, and 9 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#217432 - 07/30/16 08:37 PM Locked rotor, no burnout  
poorboy  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 124
Central Maine
A small fractional HP pump stopped working in a customers little garden pond (she creates a 12 inch waterfall with it). The braided line from a duck decoy had been sucked into the intake(no filter)and wrapped around the impeller shaft and stopped the submerged motor cold for a couple days.

I took the cover off, removed the string, and reassembled it and it works fine.

What prevents this motor from overheating and shorting the windings?

[Linked Image]



Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#217433 - 07/31/16 02:44 AM Re: Locked rotor, no burnout [Re: poorboy]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,135
Estero,Fl,usa
My guess is liquid cooling and a fairly modest current draw in the first place. Is it "shaded pole"? They are pretty resilient in LR but you pay for it with virtually no starting torque.


Greg Fretwell

#217586 - 09/07/16 04:26 AM Re: Locked rotor, no burnout [Re: poorboy]  
Entropy  Offline
New Member
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1
Washington
Definitely a problem with the liquid cooling.


#217648 - 09/29/16 03:18 PM Re: Locked rotor, no burnout [Re: poorboy]  
jraef  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 101
San francisco, CA, USA
99% of those little pond pumps are cheap little shaded pole motors. They are "impedance limited" in terms of protection, meaning they don't need a fuse or breaker because they are inherently current limiting at their own rated current. So stopping the rotor is, to the motor, no different than running at full load, other than the fact that instead of moving water, it just heats it.


JRaef

#217654 - 09/30/16 06:48 AM Re: Locked rotor, no burnout [Re: poorboy]  
andey  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 39
germany
It is not fully impossible for a shaded pole Motor to overheat, it depends on the size and design. See link.
Maybe, because the water pump manufacturer did a little thinking, they designed their motor expecting it to get stuck by obstacles once in a while.

http://www.electrical-forensics.com/BathroomFans/BathroomFans.html


#217655 - 10/01/16 04:04 PM Re: Locked rotor, no burnout [Re: poorboy]  
geoff in UK  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 185
UK
Interesting stuff Andey. I knew that those shaded pole motors could overheat, and burn out the windings even, but I hadn't seen them as such a fire risk. I would hope that the rising current as sections of winding shorted would blow a fuse or trip a breaker in most cases, but it certainly justifies the thermal fuses we often see now.

Regarding pond pumps, I've messed around with those and found that you can even pull the rotor in and out whilst it's energised with no discernable effect on the stator temperature. I agree with jraef that the winding impedance limits the current to a harmless level.


#217668 - 10/06/16 07:50 PM Re: Locked rotor, no burnout [Re: poorboy]  
jraef  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 101
San francisco, CA, USA
Not sure how old the fans were that he investigated, but i remember that thermal fuse wire being added back in the late 70s when I worked for a Nutone distributor. That issue was somewhat unique to SP motors used on vent fans, because it was implied that the fans would be moving air across them and keep them cool. Before adding the fuse link, the thought was that if you turned on a vent fan and it didn't vent the air, you investigated and fixed it. but people kept ignoring them and some caught on fire, so UL added the requirement for the fuse link, maybe around 1978? That issue would not likely happen in a pond pump surrounded by water. I had mine stop pumping and found out that my wife turned it on and left it on, for maybe 3 weeks before remembering to tell me about it. It just had a little stick in the impeller, I removed it and it started pumping again.


JRaef


Member Spotlight
CDS
CDS
Nicholson Ga
Posts: 34
Joined: June 2006
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.020s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.7857 MB (Peak: 0.9411 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-11-21 15:19:21 UTC