ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
dsk 3
Recent Posts
weatherproof fan box
by sparkync. 06/28/17 02:18 PM
High Leg Delta, phase angles
by gfretwell. 06/27/17 12:17 PM
Mains supply in GDR
by Texas_Ranger. 06/27/17 07:44 AM
Feed to spa panel
by HotLine1. 06/25/17 05:28 PM
Weatherhead, POA, height?
by HotLine1. 06/24/17 02:37 PM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
238,293 Are you busy
173,504 Re: Forum
166,307 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (jraef), 59 guests, and 9 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#213889 - 08/23/14 08:00 PM Circuit Breaker temperature ratings and the CEC  
Potseal  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 225
Saskatchewan
I was discussing code rules with another electrician and it involved an exam question from the ESAT Canadian Electrician Certificate of Qualification Practice Tool. The question was:

Q: What is the minimum size of AC90 cable that can be used to carry the maximum allowable electrical heating load that can be connected to a 240 V, 20 amp, 2-pole breaker?

A: Rules 62-114 and 4-006, Table 2, 75 degree column = #14 AWG


I have no problem understanding that breakers are rated at 60, 75, or 60/75 degrees (source: Schneider Electric) and therefore if the question only mentions "breaker" then you COULD assume 75 degrees for the termination temp. The problem is where in the code specifically does 75 degrees come from? If the termination temp of the equipment isn't specified (in this case, it's not specified in the question) then why would you assume the breaker's termination temp. is 75 degrees? It could be rated at 60 degrees. Poorly worded question or is the author of the question assuming you should know to use 75 degrees?


A malfunction at the junction

Tools for Electricians:

#213891 - 08/24/14 02:55 AM Re: Circuit Breaker temperature ratings and the CEC [Re: Potseal]  
twh  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 915
Regina, Sask.
I would have guessed 12 AWG per 14-104(2). Because the ampacity in Table 2 is 20 amps subject to note referring to 14-104, which states that a conductor on a 20 amp breaker must be #12, I wouldn't think you could use that ampacity without applying the associated rule.

Perhaps we can look for an answer to the 75 degree assumption south of the border.

I don't think the question is worded so badly. I think the problem is that the Canadian Electrical Code is out of control.


#213951 - 09/11/14 11:36 PM Re: Circuit Breaker temperature ratings and the CEC [Re: Potseal]  
Potseal  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 225
Saskatchewan
Well, it bothered me enough to contact CSA. Here's the email reply:

Quote
All circuit breaker have been certified for use with 75 C conductor ampacity ratings. Circuit breakers are marked somewhere on the circuit breaker with a label that says, “60/75C wire”. Since all circuit breakers are marked the Rule doesn’t require the 75 C to be specified. This came about in the 2012 Canadian Electrical Code, when Rule 4-006 was changed. This now means that if a conductor terminates on a circuit breaker you must use the 75C column from Tables 1, 2, 3 or 4 to determine it maximum ampacity rating. We didn’t put the breaker temperature in the questions as the C of Q Exam doesn’t have to and also we didn’t want you to think that circuit breakers come with 90 C ratings.

4-006 Temperature limitations (see Appendix B)
(1) Where equipment is marked with a maximum conductor termination temperature, the maximum
allowable ampacity of the conductor shall be based on the corresponding temperature column from
Table 1, 2, 3, or 4.
(2) Where equipment is not marked with a maximum conductor termination temperature, 90 °C shall be used
by default.

Let me know if I can be of any further assistance.

Regards,

Robert Nelson
Senior electrical Consultant – Learning Services
CSA Group


Last edited by Potseal; 09/11/14 11:37 PM.

A malfunction at the junction


Member Spotlight
cookcc
cookcc
California ,Long Beach
Posts: 28
Joined: May 2007
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.012s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.7538 MB (Peak: 0.8780 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-06-29 02:07:50 UTC