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#209020 - 03/03/13 07:33 PM Receptacle in Dining room  
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
Okay, so here's my next question: Can a switched receptacle be on a small appliance branch circuit for dining room lighting?


George Little

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#209021 - 03/03/13 08:14 PM Re: Receptacle in Dining room [Re: George Little]  
shortcircuit  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 608
massachusetts
IMO...no. 210.52(B)(2) says no other outlets can be on the small appliance branch circuits


#209027 - 03/03/13 11:15 PM Re: Receptacle in Dining room [Re: George Little]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,116
Estero,Fl,usa
Interesting question.

You need to have a luminaire, switched as your required lighting outlet to satisfy 210.70)A)(1)ex1 so who is to say that it is a lighting outlet if it was on one of two SA circuits?
210.52 tends to be contradictory. On the one hand they want 2 dedicated 20s serving the counter top, then they say you can pick up just about every other receptacle in the kitchen, dining room, pantry etc on those circuits.
The handbook does show a switched lighting outlet (receptacle) on a 15a general lighting circuit.


Greg Fretwell

#209030 - 03/04/13 10:18 AM Re: Receptacle in Dining room [Re: George Little]  
harold endean  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
Greg,

When I was in business, I would run about 3 different circuits to the kitchen. On one circuit, I would pick up 2-3 recpt. in kitchen and some in dining room. On another circuit, I would pick up 2-3 recpt. in kitchen then pick up some breakfast nook recpt. The last kitchen circuit would stay in the kitchen and they would have 3-4 recpt on it. Depending on the size of the kitchen.


#209036 - 03/04/13 11:00 AM Re: Receptacle in Dining room [Re: George Little]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,116
Estero,Fl,usa
I have seen some scary expensive houses that only had 2 for all of the required rooms. (kitchen, dining and a nook)

They also picked up 3 baths (counters) on one 20.

I was amazed at where some builders will save a buck.


Greg Fretwell

#209040 - 03/04/13 03:04 PM Re: Receptacle in Dining room [Re: George Little]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,864
Brick, NJ USA
I have to agree with Shortcircuit & say 'No', IF that circuit is one of the two required.

If it is an 'additional' 20 amp circuit then I feel it would be OK.

As to the bath receptacles all being on one circuit, compliant but a terrible design, and could be a major inconvenience for the occupants.


John

#209044 - 03/04/13 05:19 PM Re: Receptacle in Dining room [Re: George Little]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,116
Estero,Fl,usa
I wonder if George's question comes down to whether a small appliance receptacle outlet can be switched? You already have the required lighting outlet.


Greg Fretwell

#209045 - 03/04/13 08:39 PM Re: Receptacle in Dining room [Re: George Little]  
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
I'm going to go with Greg, Short Circuit and Hot line's answers. One can not switch a receptacle on a 20a. SAC to satisfy the lighting outlet requirement mentioned in 210.70. It might be a stretch because the dining room is not mentioned in the exception but the wording in 210.52(B)(2) is pretty clear "No Other Outlets" meaning no lighting outlets. IMHO.


George Little

#209079 - 03/06/13 10:40 AM Re: Receptacle in Dining room [Re: George Little]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,864
Brick, NJ USA
George:
IF someone wanted 1/2 of a DR outlet switched for convenience, as in controling whatever was plugged into the 1/2, that would be compliant. (Using a 20 amp listed switch)

What say you?? Opinions appreciated.


John

#209081 - 03/06/13 10:45 AM Re: Receptacle in Dining room [Re: George Little]  
harold endean  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
John,

I think I would have to pass that type of install if I saw it.


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