ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Potseal 11
Recent Posts
600 KW 120/208 3 Phase Y protection
by Yooperup. 07/24/17 12:20 PM
1913 American Electrician's Handbook
by gfretwell. 07/20/17 01:08 PM
Green House wiring
by ghost307. 07/20/17 09:10 AM
Permit Snafus...AHJs and Contractors Jump in
by HotLine1. 07/18/17 08:06 PM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
239,324 Are you busy
174,793 Re: Forum
167,162 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (andey), 67 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#207994 - 12/16/12 08:53 PM R90 in air handling unit  
wacked  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 33
Recently I had an air handler shut down due to a wire rubbed where it goes into the motor. The wire rubbed and arced to ground where it went into the motor and the overload opened the circuit (this destroyed the overload, at 600 Volt!!!) The surprise to me was the fact that the wires are three hots and a bond tie wrapped to the frame of the air handler from the starter/overloads to the motor. Not teck or BX but just three hots and a bond. There are six other air handlers that are wired the same way. The motors have an anti short put into the motor where a connector would thread in. The air handlers are electically certified for Canada but this does not seem proper. Shouldn't these wire be ran in armour or sheathing with proper connectors or???? This particular motor that arced had no anti short installed.


Tools for Electricians:

#207997 - 12/16/12 10:55 PM Re: R90 in air handling unit [Re: wacked]  
twh  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 916
Regina, Sask.
That's the way roof top units and furnaces are, too.


#208007 - 12/17/12 06:59 PM Re: R90 in air handling unit [Re: wacked]  
mikesh  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 613
Victoria, BC, Canada
Wacked.
How the unit is wired is a function of the product approval standard for air handling equipment. This is Part 2 OF the Canadian Electrical code. This is why an inspector looks for an approval label to verify the thing was made to the OTHER electrical code. Ther is a part 3 , 4 and 5 too.

Your work as an electrician is the installation of electrical products which is PART 1 of the CEC and the portion of the code electricians break and inspectors reject or approve.

How the product is wired intenally is not governed by your part 1 installation code. It is regulated by Part 2 which is a lot of code books that govern how the product is made and how it performs as well as the market it is approved for like household and commercial.

Just like the wiring for your range is open inside the stove so may be some of the wiring inside your AH unit.


#208093 - 12/24/12 10:03 PM Re: R90 in air handling unit [Re: wacked]  
wacked  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 33
This unit does have an approval label... that still doesn't make it proper due to the fact that there was a failure.
I have looked at other air handlers and teck is used more often than not. Maybe the "other code" for packaged units need to be reviewed.


#208322 - 01/11/13 04:01 PM Re: R90 in air handling unit [Re: wacked]  
mikesh  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 613
Victoria, BC, Canada
You are saying a manufacturer like engineered air is using teck internally to wire the motors? I don't see that. I built this stuff briefly in an earlier life and we did not use tech or acwu internal wiring. Sometimes we used seal tight. it is very common to see what you describe inside of these air units. The fault is a manufacturers error and I would report that to the Certification Body that approved it. I.E. CSA or cUL. We regulary report product defects to them as they can make the manufacturer fiz the wiring methods used internally.
You cannot judge how a piece of approved equipment is internally wired by comparing it to the code book methods. The code book is about how we wire the parts together the other part of the coed is how the factory makes the products we wire.
Your description of how various factories wire the motors is more related to their designs and what is more important to them withing the part 2 standards.



Member Spotlight
akmaster
akmaster
alaska
Posts: 70
Joined: June 2012
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.015s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.7694 MB (Peak: 0.9095 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-07-25 10:50:32 UTC