ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Potseal 11
Recent Posts
Dimmable LED 2x4 lay in fixtures
by HotLine1. 04/24/17 05:43 PM
Old decora style outlets
by Lostazhell. 04/22/17 07:59 PM
Permit Snafus...AHJs and Contractors Jump in
by gfretwell. 04/22/17 01:11 PM
How do you find a good employee?
by HotLine1. 04/22/17 10:44 AM
Electrode boilers question
by SteveFehr. 04/21/17 08:32 AM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
234,661 Are you busy
169,369 Re: Forum
162,699 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 56 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
#207949 - 12/11/12 10:33 AM Re: Lost UL complience  
harold endean  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
I forget and I know this question popped up after last years hurricane/snowstorm in the east. One breaker interlock company lost it's UL listing. Which one was it? Did they ever get it back? Anyone know?


Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#207950 - 12/11/12 11:46 AM Re: Lost UL complience [Re: harold endean]  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Does it matter?

That is .... just look for the UL lable. If it has one, it's listed. Period. No lable, no listing. It's that simple.


#207952 - 12/11/12 01:58 PM Re: Lost UL complience [Re: harold endean]  
gfretwell  Online Content


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,069
Estero,Fl,usa
The interlock that is sold on the internet is listed by Wyle labs, another NRTL.

I have been in a discussion with an inspector about these interlocks on another BB and he is saying there is no legal way to connect a portable generator to a house anyway.

Also your typical Briggs generator is not listed at all.

OTOH this inspector has no problem converting well pumps and furnace blowers to cord and plug "in an emergency" citing 590.



Greg Fretwell

#207956 - 12/11/12 10:20 PM Re: Lost UL complience [Re: harold endean]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,809
Brick, NJ USA
OK, I had a backfed 2 pole 30 amp Sq D QO in my panel. 10/4 rubber cord, 4 pole twistlock (20 amp) to match generator. I used a LOTO that fit the 200 amp main with a ty-wrap.

Legal? Compliant?

It ran for 15 of the 18 days I was without POCO power.

Why is the gentlemans opinion that there are no legal installs? What's wrong with the interlock kit, a compliant inlet and cord connecting the gen on the exterior.



John

#207961 - 12/12/12 05:13 AM Re: Lost UL complience [Re: harold endean]  
gfretwell  Online Content


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,069
Estero,Fl,usa
His main complaint with the interlock is the generator is set up as an SDS so you have a parallel neutral with it and the panel being bonded. He also points out all new "listed" generators have GFCI outputs that force the SDS setup. The MBJ would trip it.
Of course if you look at just about all of the Home Depot type generators, they are not listed. (no GFCI)
It gets pretty silly after that.
The strange thing is he has no problem with putting a cord and plug on furnace blowers and submersible pumps.
That is his "legal" way to use a portable generator.


Greg Fretwell

#207964 - 12/12/12 10:45 AM Re: Lost UL complience [Re: harold endean]  
harold endean  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
I was checking the OSHA site for NRTL companies and that Wyle Lab, was not listed. They make those interlocks for a number of service panels and they say that they are tested to UL *** standard.

This came off the OSHA site:

A Few Minor Exceptions

In general, under 29 CFR Part 1910, products required to be approved must be NRTL approved. However, there are a few exceptions. Most notably, for electric products, there are two exceptions. If the electric products are of a kind that no NRTL approves, then OSHA allows approval of the products by a Federal agency or by a State or local code authority that enforces NEC workplace safety provisions. The other exception concerns "custom-made equipment," which designates equipment designed, made for, and used by a particular customer (i.e., unique or one-of-a-kind items). In this case, the employer must demonstrate safety based on test data provided by the manufacturer. As can be seen, these exceptions are very narrow.

As indicated earlier, NRTLs can use testing done by other parties under certain programs allowed by OSHA. These other parties include product manufacturers and can be located anywhere in the world. While using these programs can minimize the work that the NRTL must accomplish itself, the NRTL must exercise adequate control to ensure that other parties are doing the activities appropriately. Nonetheless, these programs can reduce the time and cost necessary for product certification.


#207965 - 12/12/12 10:47 AM Re: Lost UL complience [Re: harold endean]  
harold endean  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
This is part 2 of the above post.

So would the interlock that Wyle labs make be "Custom made" for that particular panel? And if so, wouldn't that fall under the first paragraph of the OSHA statement about not being NRTL listed?


#207967 - 12/12/12 12:41 PM Re: Lost UL complience [Re: harold endean]  
KJay  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 763
MA, USA
Well, everything I have found on the subject seems to indicate that the NRTL listing for all products previously tested by Wyle Labs is still valid and has not been revoked in any way, which would make sense.
Only WYLE Labs themselves are directly affected by having their NRTL recognition revoked by OSHA as of August 24, 2011, but all equipment that was approved by them as an NRTL before this date is still valid and acceptable for use, just as it was before this revocation occurred.

Here is a statement from OSHA:
OSHA/Wyle Labs

The last paragraph states "The DATES section above provides the effective date of revocation. Consequently, the Agency no longer accepts product certifications made by Wyle on or after this effective date."

Products certifications from Wyle Labs made after August 24, 2011 would no longer accepted by OSHA, but according to the interlockit website, those interlock kits were tested in 2005 and revised in 2009, so are still NRTL approved and recognized by OSHA.
Interlockit Testing





#207968 - 12/12/12 02:42 PM Re: Lost UL complience [Re: harold endean]  
gfretwell  Online Content


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,069
Estero,Fl,usa
The idea of an interlock is accepted by U/L: since Schnider sells one for their SqD and Homeline panels.
I guess that not being a NRTL would be a problem tho if you chose not to accept it.
Personally, this is a simple enough device that if it looks like it works, it works. I could see a guy in a machine shop making a real nice one but it still would not be listed.

I guess that is what 90-4 was put in there for.


Greg Fretwell

#207971 - 12/12/12 04:46 PM Re: Lost UL complience [Re: harold endean]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,809
Brick, NJ USA
Amen.


John

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

Member Spotlight
HotLine1
HotLine1
Brick, NJ USA
Posts: 6,809
Joined: April 2002
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.019s Queries: 16 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8242 MB (Peak: 1.0061 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-04-25 02:56:49 UTC