ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
twh 3
Recent Posts
FPE in Germany
by Texas_Ranger. 11/19/17 07:30 AM
Ceiling fan distance from outdoor hot tub
by gfretwell. 11/16/17 02:18 AM
diazed fuses
by Texas_Ranger. 11/13/17 03:02 PM
Theft deterrent alarm
by gfretwell. 11/12/17 01:39 PM
EEPROM errors on XC7Z010-2CLG225I chip
by twh. 11/07/17 05:45 PM
New in the Gallery:
Gallery Test
Popular Topics(Views)
242,574 Are you busy
178,745 Re: Forum
170,018 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 46 guests, and 7 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#207438 - 10/29/12 06:50 PM AFCI  
SJT  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 241
PATCHOGUE, N.Y.
Hello,
When we install an outlet in an existing home, do we have to protect it with an AFCI, if it is going in the AFCI areas? Is that needed only if we are running a line back to the circuit breaker panel?
Also, is a finished room in a basement, require AFCI protection, if a new circuit is ran to that room?
Thanks
Just sitting here listening to the winds of Sandy.
She's makin a lot of noise here on Long Island.
SJT


2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#207441 - 10/29/12 08:46 PM Re: AFCI [Re: SJT]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,135
Estero,Fl,usa
That is one of those "where do you live" things.
Usually there is an existing building or rehab code that will tell you.
I think that generally if you are just extending an existing circuit, no.


Greg Fretwell

#208586 - 01/31/13 07:52 AM Re: AFCI [Re: gfretwell]  
CZap  Offline
New Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 7
NJ (Ocean Co.)
Originally Posted by gfretwell
That is one of those "where do you live" things.
.


We do mostly remodel work, in NJ specifically and have yet to be busted for a new outlet being AFCI. If the room is on one then yeah you probably should.

As for the basement do AFCI or GFI is my preference just to be safe from any water


#208589 - 01/31/13 10:41 AM Re: AFCI [Re: SJT]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,874
Brick, NJ USA
Debate is now in progress regarding AFCI in basement 'finishing' jobs. It is under the NJ UCC Rehab, and a recent opinion from State DCA says...
'Yes, AFCI unless you are extending an existing circuit'
Rehab is based on the 2008 NEC now, and AFCI is required.

The debate is what section of the Rehab Code applies to finishing an existing basement, with no increase in structural volume.

This is the New Jersey take, other states will vary


John

#208624 - 02/02/13 01:20 PM Re: AFCI [Re: SJT]  
harold endean  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
John,

Yes, I checked with DCA on Fri. and talked to the New Guy down there. His name is Alan Chech ( pronounced check) His take is that a new finished basement counts as "New building element" and therefore AFCI is required. Our Rehab does follow 2008 NEC and new work follows 2011. Having said that, I believe that even if you replace a receptacle, according to the 2008 NEC, you were suppose to change the circuit to AFCI. However NJ removed that requirement from the NEC under our UCC rules.


#208625 - 02/02/13 01:21 PM Re: AFCI [Re: SJT]  
harold endean  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
Just another thought. Receptacles for sump pumps, should be on GFCI if they are in a basement, right? How many people do not want that rule? Should the receptacle also have to be AFCI?


#208626 - 02/02/13 02:04 PM Re: AFCI [Re: SJT]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,874
Brick, NJ USA
Harold:
The key to what you say regarding the 'basement' is the words "New Guy".
Previous discussions regarding this was...
As the basement is a part of an existing building envelope, it is not considered an 'addition' therefore it does not require AFCI. This opinion was drafted by Susan and Rob Austin.

This 'new' opinion will add to the confusion that the UCC original intent was to have consistant interpertations, and the 'rules' to be equal statewide.

Someone down there should provide an FTO on this, so everyone is on the same page. Doing this will prevent "John does not enforce/require that" issues.

What say you? His page or mine??


John

#208635 - 02/03/13 12:44 PM Re: AFCI [Re: SJT]  
harold endean  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
John,

I am not a big fan of AFCI's just yet. I would love any reason not to have to enforce using of those product right now. I told Alan that in the 30 + years of electrical work, this UCC/Rehab/NEC code has been more confusing than I have ever encountered in all my years. He also agreed. Maybe we have to write to the DCA and submit changes to the UCC and the Rehab code, stating that.


#208645 - 02/03/13 09:01 PM Re: AFCI [Re: SJT]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,135
Estero,Fl,usa
I think the AFCI is the last war. That is over, they almost work now. We should just use our experience with that to fix the problem of "the next new thing" getting jammed in the code before it is ready for the public, going forward.
We are at version 3.1 or higher in the AFCI and it is just starting to return on the promise. We should not have been selling these at the point of a government gun during the testing process.


Greg Fretwell


Member Spotlight
akmaster
akmaster
alaska
Posts: 70
Joined: June 2012
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.020s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.8028 MB (Peak: 0.9765 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-11-19 16:17:40 UTC