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#207271 - 10/12/12 12:30 AM "within sight of"  
schenimann  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 193
Western North Carolina
Does "within sight of" mean from the disconnect itself or as I am standing in front of it?

I am wiring a hot tub. There is a 8 foot pad for it. 3-4 feet away is the wall for an addition that is going on the house. The wall is about 12 foot long and symmetrical to the pad. So my disconnect has to go around the corner enough to get the 5 foot rule. However once I round the corner, technically you cannot see the disconnect from the tub. I will be able to see the tub while standing in front of the disconnect but not actually able to see the disconnect from the tub(well maybe a spot of gray paint). Is this enough?

I just don't want to get into a technical discussion with the ahj after the underground is in.


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#207272 - 10/12/12 04:10 AM Re: "within sight of" [Re: schenimann]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,085
Estero,Fl,usa
Ask him.

There should be some logic involved. The intent is that nobody will walk up and turn on the breaker while you are working there without you seeing him.
Best if they distract you enough to see them coming by tripping over you but it is really in the eye of the inspector whether it is safe.


Greg Fretwell

#207274 - 10/12/12 10:45 AM Re: "within sight of" [Re: schenimann]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,833
Brick, NJ USA
IMHO, based on your details, I would not have an issue with this location. LOTO, or using the hasp with a lock will insure access to the disco while a 'qualified' person is working. That is as long as that person has LOTO, or a padlock.



John

#207275 - 10/12/12 12:07 PM Re: "within sight of" [Re: schenimann]  
Yoopersup  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 822
Michigan
See Definitions in NEC
IN Sight.


#207277 - 10/12/12 01:17 PM Re: "within sight of" [Re: schenimann]  
Yoopersup  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 822
Michigan
680.12 is what you must comply with. No exceptions.


#207278 - 10/12/12 01:51 PM Re: "within sight of" [Re: schenimann]  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
I'd suggest that it's time to have that 'technical discussion with the AHJ' before you run the pipe.

For all we know the guy might decide he wants the disco within the 5ft .... or he may be a 'letter of the law' type and you'll wind up setting a pole-mounted disconnect in the middle of the yard.


#207279 - 10/12/12 01:56 PM Re: "within sight of" [Re: schenimann]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,085
Estero,Fl,usa
Perhaps I am not getting the true picture of this but the "spot of gray paint" seems to imply you can see the side of the enclosure, just not the switch handle. If a person standing in front of this switch was in full view, I would say it was within sight. Another issue might be, can you approach this from the other side? (someone walk up and flip the switch without seeing you working or you seeing them).
If you are buried in the tub enclosure working on something, nothing is actually within sight.
The only 99% safe way is LOTO but you still have the 1% idiot out there so nothing is 100%


Greg Fretwell

#207280 - 10/12/12 08:10 PM Re: "within sight of" [Re: schenimann]  
Yoopersup  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 822
Michigan
picked this up off Mike Holts Site:
Q8. What are the disconnect requirements for outdoor spas or hot tubs?

A8. A maintenance disconnecting means is required for an outdoor spa or hot tub. The maintenance disconnecting means must be readily accessible and located within sight from the spa or hot tub [680.12], but not less than 5 ft horizontally from the inside walls of the spa or hot tub unless separated by a solid fence, wall, or other permanent barrier [680.22(C)].
In other than a single-family dwelling, a clearly labeled emergency spa or hot tub water recirculation and jet system shutoff must be supplied. The emergency shutoff must be readily accessible to the users and located not less than 5 ft away, but adjacent to and within sight of the spa or hot tub. [680.41]. Either the maintenance disconnecting means required by 680.12 or a pushbutton that controls a relay located in accordance with this section can be used to meet the emergency shutoff requirement.
The purpose of the emergency shutoff is to protect users. Deaths and injuries have occurred in less than 3 ft of water because individuals became stuck to the water intake opening.


#207281 - 10/12/12 09:31 PM Re: "within sight of" [Re: schenimann]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,833
Brick, NJ USA
Scheimann:

Renos suggestion to speak to the AHJ is a really good place for you to start.

I based my opinion on your info. But, the old addage of 'opinions are like xxxxx, everyone has one'!! I have other AHJs locally whose opinions differ from mine.



John

#207306 - 10/15/12 09:18 AM Re: "within sight of" [Re: schenimann]  
harold endean  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
How about this one. The disco for the hot tub is right next to you,(within 5 feet) but behind a door. Now you can't help but see the door open and in front of the disco, and you can't shut the disco off without closing the door. Plus you can't get to the disco unless you pass the person working on the hot tub. Is that in "Sight of" the disco.


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